Feeling VERY threatened by a crazy person
This is a discussion on Feeling VERY threatened by a crazy person within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'd go back to those Agents who asked you about his mental capacity to order a hit on the prosecutor. I'd tell them, if you ...
January 1st, 2010 11:40 AM
I'd go back to those Agents who asked you about his mental capacity to order a hit on the prosecutor. I'd tell them, if you haven't already, that you think the guy is crazy and capable of anything and that you are totally scared of him.
Ask their advice for getting you professional protection and maybe save the prosecutor too; as your in-law might have a list he plans to go down one by one.
They wouldn't have come to interview you if there weren't already information that this guy is making threats and or plans. Perhaps if they get enough of the right information-- e.g., calling up folks looking to find your new address--- they can piece together new charges and get him off the street.
January 1st, 2010 11:54 AM
I have faced exactly that, keep youe eyes open and make a paper trail with the police.
January 1st, 2010 11:59 AM
Welcome to the Forum. Sorry you are starting your new year off this way! I think you've got a decent blueprint for OPSEC, but as others stated, expect the unexpected. I suggest you obtain a copy of The Art of War by Sun Tzu (you can d/l it free - Google it). Read it and digest it. I promise your B-I-L has. Prepare for the worst and get training. You need the skills and the mindset to protect your family against this and other threats. Bill might be a fan of the 5-shot snubbie, but I suggest you learn on a good semi-automatic for increased capacity and faster follow-up shots.
As for training, you might send an email to Dr. Piazza at Front Sight (http://www.frontsight.com). Your situation is ripe for a freebie (and all the publicity it brings him). The worst thing that can happen is you'll get a reduced rate and learn a lot while having a lot of fun. The only contact info I have is email@example.com. Your message will be delivered to him.
My prayers are with you and your family. Act now, be prepared and please keep us informed.
Last edited by sniper58; January 1st, 2010 at 12:01 PM.
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
NRA Life Member
January 1st, 2010 11:59 AM
I don't think you're paranoid. You should always take a threat seriously.
It is difficult to understand a criminal (or mentally ill) mind.
I'd go to the agents who originally contacted you.
If at all possible, move to another location. Have an unlisted phone number. Don't give your address to anybody - not even friends or family.
Talk to your local P.D. Ask if they can step up patrols in your neighborhood and ask them for safety tips.
I've had a few death threats. On several occasions, I hired a body guard to sit outside the house at night.
Install monitored cameras around the outside of your house.
Always be aware of your comings and goings. Look for any suspicious vehicles in your neighborhood.
Take different routes to work, store, church, etc.
Change vehicles if you can.
Get a trained guard dog.
Most importantly, if you have children, make their safety your number one priority. Don't let them play outside unless you're with them. Tell the school administrator about the problem. Give them instructions in writing that NO ONE is allowed to pick up the kids from school except you or your husband.
Besides tactical handgun training, take some classes in hand-to-hand combat.
Get physically fit.
And don't ever, ever answer the door unless you know who it is. Drill this into your kid's heads too.
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."
January 1st, 2010 12:08 PM
Milly, there are two kinds of crazy. Those who roll thier feces into little balls and those that do harm to others. Sounds like you are dealing with the latter. Do you have a concealed carry permit? Get well trained. Always be prepared. Always carry, even at home. We don't get to pick when bad things happen, the bad guy decides that. I am a revolver man myself, but in your situation I would want a high capacity auto to carry while at home and keep on the night stand
Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato
January 1st, 2010 12:13 PM
Sounds like you need to talk to the FBI and tell them your concerns. This is a lot bigger issue than what this forum can handle. You won't find answers here...
-Kel-Tec P3AT .380 w/ Crimson Trace Laserguard and Clip Extension (summer carry)
-Kahr PM9 9mm w/ Crimson Trace Laserguard and Clip Extension (new summer carry)
-Glock 27 .40 w/ Crimson Trace Laserguard and Clip Extension (winter carry)
-Taurus PT945 .45 (more or less retired from carry)
January 1st, 2010 12:20 PM
I agree contacting the FBI is a good idea. Personally, I'd get training. I don't want to put my life in anyone else's hands - I am my own last line of defense and you can't have somebody with you 24/7 for the rest of your life. Take your own precautions and get the authorities involved.
Originally Posted by JrFreak
BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
Si vis pacem, para bellum
NRA Life Member
January 1st, 2010 12:59 PM
Welcome from South Florida. I believe that CCW9MM summarized the correct response very well. There is more than just weaponry involved, and it involves physical and personal security. Your home has to be hardened, your daily life process needs to be visited, analyzed and adjusted/refined/enhanced accordingly. In addition, as stated elsewhere, get a restraining order, notify the local PD and the FBI, as it will provide a legal basis for the future - but DO NOT DEPEND on them for a timely response or an accurate one.
If you know and trust some neighbors, advise them to also keep alert in the neighborhood for activity that is different than the normal flow. DO NOT use the term "suspicious," as it conflicts with the human senses - use the phrases "different," "out of the oridinary." DO NOT allow yourself and your immediate family to shrug incidents, and your intuitive responses to be overridden by double-guessing yourself and others. Wish I could offer more, but it's in a book that I am writing and would fill the forum.
Best wishes - terrible way to start the New Year!
Semper Vigilantia - Semper Paratus
NRA Life Member
January 1st, 2010 01:10 PM
Thank you all for a HUGE amount of great ideas, and for all of the really fantastic support!
To answer some of the statements and questions so far posted here:
We have no family to speak of, except for a 23 year old son five states away, who is concerned about this, but is also quite uninterested. So we have no real family base of any kind anymore (which can be a positive thing: No one else for Bill and I to protect and to worry about!). We also know the local neighbors, but we are not really social enough to become friends with them; but they are all good people, and may help in certain limited circumstances.
The Feds that Bill and I met before and after the trial where really fantastic people, and very nice, but after the trial they appeared to completely lose interest in all of the trial witnesses…
A jailhouse informant is apparently the one who notified the Federal authorities that Bill's brother was trying to hire him to eliminate the chief prosecutor (but without other evidence, I guess, the Feds couldn't charge him with anything concrete).
I personally have a loaded S&W 640 stainless in my night stand, cylinder open. I love it! And we both load .38 HydraShok +Ps.
We don't want to go to semi-autos, as Bill has told me his experiences owning and firing many semi-autos in the 1970's, and (I am quoting now) he "came to dislike their ammo sensitivity, limp wrist jams, stove piping, failures to eject, failures to lock-up, also sometimes ejecting magazines while in the holster or when the mag release was accidently pressed during handling, and their (mostly) single action triggers (too risky for a "ND"), inability to double strike a stubborn primer, their shear complexity vs. a revolver, etc." (He is telling me as I write this that he understands that a few of these issues have been somewhat or totally corrected over the last few years, but he still says "Five for sure, as opposed to 17 maybe!".)
Bill has a 4" Colt Python too, but I find it too heavy, and he doesn't care for the possibility of accidently going into single action mode (SA shooting was the way he was trained years ago).
He is ULTRA safety conscious, as well as being very aware of the dangers of the BG getting the shotgun while we are away, and just waiting for us (so he has a combo lock on the trigger, as well as having the gun unloaded (due to the combo lock being in the trigger guard). However, he can get the piece unlocked, loaded, and ready to fire in about 15 seconds).
We absolutely agree that we would be in trouble against a determined and/or professional attacker, as not only do they not hesitate, but they can pick the time and the place to do what they plan to do. But we are thankfully on a dead-end road in the country, set back from the street, with trees cleared back some 50 feet on all sides of the house.
Thankfully we are retired, so we are not as vulnerable as someone who must go to work every day (as we had to before we left our original "home" state to get away from this nutcase two years ago).
Bill's nut-job brother is also relatively good with certain explosives, so we now shut our garage doors (soon to be alarmed too).
My husband has the concealed carry permit, and never leaves home un-armed (even to pick up a bottle of milk). I don't feel confident enough though to carry at the moment, but Bill would definitely like me to!
We are, thankfully, pretty lean and fit, and "only" in our early fifties, so we at least still have good mobility and speed.
Thank you again to all; you have all been GREAT with this!!
PS: I especially love the security idea of "Re-plant the areas outside every window with chest-high, thorny, stout bushes that will shred an intruder who is not wearing a shark suit". That should really be a part of every secure household. Excellent deterrent!
January 1st, 2010 01:12 PM
Pretend you are the crazy brother or his agent. From that prospective, examine the ways you would do this job. If you had to eliminate your husband, you would ambush on the street, for instance. Then work on mitigation.
This may be one of those situations where the best defense is a good offense. A sting. If he did people out of $2,000,000, you may have some people willing to help get him back in jail.
January 1st, 2010 02:29 PM
Is he capable of murder?
I work in a state prison that also is the medical facility for state prisoners. In other works we get all the bugs for the nut hut. While I am not the most senior man there, I have learned a few things from working with the bugs. If he has talked about it, he is capable of doing it. If he has not talked about it, he is still capable of doing it. If you ever have asked yourself would he do it, he will. There are too many great recommendations on this thread for me to reiterate, so mine is simple. It is easier to plan for and act against an attack you expect. You need to think not will he attack, but that he is going too. That mind set could save your life. When it happens you mind will react "here it is" not "I can't believe he's really doing this." Your mind set is the most crucial component of your survival. REFUSE TO DIE! REFUSE TO LOSE! You cannot use restraint in your planning, or your reaction when he appears threating you. Yes get the RO, talk to the FBI and state, county, and local LEO's. Will they protect you? No, but it will protect you in court after you have shot and killed him or his assignee during an attack on you. Get stress inoculation training, firearms training, security training together. The worse that will happen is that you'll have to use it. The best is that you get to spend time with your spouse in all this training learning, laughing, and loving. Our time together is limited by mother nature, don't let a bug preempt your life. Good luck, work hard, plan hard, react hard. But don't forget to live, laugh and love.
When the chips are down, only hits count
Train as you fight, fight as you train.
Sig 220-45,Sig 225-9mm,Sig 226-.40,Bernelli M1,Bernelli Nova, SW 4340-.40
Glock 19,Llama Mini .45,U-238 WMD, (so the anti's say),and others
January 1st, 2010 02:45 PM
Two suggestions: First, weaponry - get Bill to a range where he can try out a Glock, Smith + Wesson M+P, or Springfield XD. A LOT has changed in 30+ years since he developed his opinions about autoloading pistols. I love the fact that he carries all the time and carries reloads, but by the time he's fumbling with his second speed strip things could have gotten very, very bad. If autoloaders still don't work for Bill, then a "New York reload" - a second gun - is the way to go.
Originally Posted by Milly
Second - barberry is a GREAT anti-personnel shrub! Grows almost anywhere outside of tundra, is tough to kill, looks nice, and has blanking-nasty thorns!
NRA Endowment Member
NROI Chief Range Officer
January 1st, 2010 02:58 PM
Article on shrubs to pick for deterring intruders: Use Prickly Plants to Prevent Crime.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 1st, 2010 03:09 PM
Huge risk to your son
Right here is a huge vulnerability to your family. Your crazy BIL could decide that you guys are a hard target (since you are taking all of these precautions) but that crazy BIL can exact his revenge by going after the soft target-- your son; which would for most parents be more of a wound than if they themselves were harmed.
Originally Posted by Milly
Your son needs to make himself invisible. He needs a big wake up call on the being "uninterested" part--- that's for younger teens.
Get his name out of the phone book. Get him to move if at all possible. He needs to watch his back.
Sorry if this alarms you, and I'm sure it will, but crazy people are capable of anything. Crazy BIL doesn't want to kill you. He wants to hurt you. And since he is apparently somewhat sharp, he knows how to inflict the most psychic pain possible.
January 1st, 2010 03:19 PM
+1 on the Guard dog.
+1 on the restraining order so you have a reason to call 911 immediately when you see him
+1 on you getting a carry permit, training, and carrying all the time
+1 on looking into modern semi-autos. Look at this: Glock 21 Torture test - Theprepared.com
+1 on the PO Box and making it hard to find your address.
+1 on being disciplined in your daily routine. Lock doors and windows. Don't forget your cell phone or pistol. Don't open the door to strangers. Keep car gas tank full. It only takes one slip up on a bad day for things to go from bad to terrible.
Look yourself up on google, whitepages.com, facebook (especially your son?)... see what sort of info is out there. Who knew the local quilting club published your name and photo on it's website last year?
The financially smart brother may even have Bill's social security number and could look up his credit report (which contains all previous addresses). Consider calling the 3 credit agencies (Experian, Equifax, and Transunion) and have them put anti fraud holds on your credit history. They must receive your approval before the allow peope to access your info.
Basically, try to hunt yourself, or have a computer savvy young person try for you and see what you can find. Then try to break into your home. Fix whatever weakness you find and repeat.
Is it possible or wise to contact his parole officer and let them know your fears? If he goes AWOL the parole officer could give you a phone call, "he is on the loose" and you can take a well deserved vacation to Canada.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
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