In defense of others - Page 3

In defense of others

This is a discussion on In defense of others within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If I can reasonably ascertain who the "real" victim is in any given situation and I am in position to help, I would certainly do ...

View Poll Results: Would you use your gun in defense of others?

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  • My gun is used only for me and family

    37 17.79%
  • I would defend a 3rd party if it was lawful

    163 78.37%
  • I would only defend a 3rd party if they were a child

    8 3.85%
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Thread: In defense of others

  1. #31
    Member Array Deuce130's Avatar
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    If I can reasonably ascertain who the "real" victim is in any given situation and I am in position to help, I would certainly do so. I am also a father of two little girls...that would also impact my decision in any given situation. The victim could also be a father, mother, son, daughter, etc...I would hope someone would help me if they could. There are thousands of scenarios that could occur - I would hope that anyone with common sense could accurately judge 98% of those scenarios at first look. I, for one, would help if I could.


  2. #32
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    So we should just wade in gun drawn and possibly go straight to executioner? It seems like we are judging the one doing the beating just fine without knowing exactly what we're getting into.
    Im not saying to go in gun drawn, im saying go in with intent to ascertain the situation and respond accordingly. I dont think it would take but a second to make a decision on what was happening and who to help.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    By using your OC spray you may have committed yourself to the next level in the continuum of force if the threat does not stop or gets worse.

    Anyone who has decided they would not use their gun should not use any force as it may ultimately lead to raising the stakes.
    That's exactly why I said "may." I have to decide whether or not I'm willing to take it to the next level.

    The whole reason I started carrying and training to begin with was because I KNEW I couldn't count on anyone else coming to my aide... that includes other concealed carriers. I don't expect them to help me and that's why I train and prepare to the dickens to make sure I'm able to defend myself and my own.

    If that makes me sound like a selfish person than so be it but I'd rather have a lifetime to look in the mirror and regret not acting on behalf of someone as opposed to missing the rest of my life with the people I love and who depend on me.

    I'd also rather have a guilty conscience about not acting than a guilty conscience about intervening on the wrong individual's behalf. What if I killed the "true" good guy? Just imagine how guilty I'd feel then?

    Two years ago I had different views. Two years ago I would have said I would have gotten involved, but becoming a parent has done a lot to change my way of thinking.

    My #1 responsibility is the safety of myself and my immediate family. I will try to help as long as my actions don't conflict with that #1 responsibility.

  4. #34
    Member Array mlong623's Avatar
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    The default and honest answer is the gun is for me and mine only. I'm not closed to helping others but deploying a gun depends entirely on the situation at hand.

  5. #35
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    The whole reason I started carrying and training to begin with was because I KNEW I couldn't count on anyone else coming to my aide... that includes other concealed carriers. I don't expect them to help me and that's why I train and prepare to the dickens to make sure I'm able to defend myself and my own.
    I agree entirely, and i think this is primarily the reason most people opt to train and carry, but helping others goes well beyond the parameters of our own selves, its about doing the noble thing and being there for someone less fortunate at that particular moment. I would rather my child or wife move on with life knowing their daddy/husband did everything he could to help out someone in danger, than for them to think less of my character because i was "afraid" to help.

    That is all im going to say about this because i dont want it to turn sour by arguing. To each their own and whatever you decide to do be safe doing it.
    Last edited by LethalStang; January 2nd, 2010 at 12:33 AM. Reason: Forgot something
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  6. #36
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    It depends on the situation, I'm retired Military, my whole career has been about helping people, but situations in the military are mostly cut and dry, it's different out here. It's not as clear all the time who is who or what is what, so all I can say is I'll do my best with what I have in respect to scenario, time, information and resources available.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalStang View Post
    I agree entirely, and i think this is primarily the reason most people opt to train and carry, but helping others goes well beyond the parameters of our own selves, its about doing the noble thing and being there for someone less fortunate at that particular moment. I would rather my child or wife move on with life knowing their daddy/husband did everything he could to help out someone in danger, than for them to think less of my character because i was "afraid" to help.
    LethalStang, Sleep well at night knowing that you will be judged by the only one that matters, for you are a good brother. I for one will help my fellow brother. Those of you that worry about law suits and such need to find your way...... IMO...
    Christian/Father/Husband/American/NRA Benefactor Life Member/GOA Life Member/USAF NCO/Operations; Provide Comfort/Northern Watch/Southern Watch/Enduring Freedom/Iraqi Freedom/TBD....

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    You walk a fine legal line there. "Reasonable person", and SC adds "...what you believe the victim would do if they were armed..."

    In a clear cut robbery situation - I might if I felt there was a good chance the BG would shoot the victim or if he turned the gun my way.


    In a person with a gun pointed at another person - I'd be VERY, VERY careful.

    Is the man holding a woman at gunpoint a potential rapist or someone defending himself against a prostitute trying to rob him with a knife or broken bottle? And if it's a domestic, you might very well find both parties turn on you.

    Is the scruffily-dressed young man holding a business-suited older man at gunpoint in the alley a mugger or a plain clothes LEO making a bunko arrest?

    In all cases, you'd better decide quickly and you'd better not be wrong.

    LethalStang, Sleep well at night knowing that you will be judged by the only one that matters, for you are a good brother. I for one will help my fellow brother. Those of you that worry about law suits and such need to find your way.
    I sleep well knowing I and my family are safe and knowing I am capable of defending all. I don't worry about lawsuits for I have found my way - the way of the survivor - regardless. I am not my brother's keeper, nor is he mine.

  9. #39
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    Well, I voted that I would help a third party, but it would come with a big, "It depends". Not being new to these situations, as a retired LEO, I would really have to know who was involved to some extent, before I'd get involved. For instance, the convenience store we go to 95% of the time, we've been going to for almost 20 years. I recognize and know all the clerks names. Most of them have been there for a few years, some of them more than 10. We probably go to that store 7-8 times a week. I wouldn't hesitate to intervene in an attempted robbery there, if needed.

    I'm also smart enough not to go running blindly into a situation that I'm not sure of who the players are... That could end up being the biggest mistake of anyone's life. If you intervene and something goes wrong, no one is going to cut you any slack. The DA and grand jury isn't going to be sympathetic because "he was just trying to help". Neither is a civil judge and jury....

    Of course, coming to the aid of a child would be a given. I think most folks would have a soft spot for a child in trouble...

    So in reality, I'm with Lima on this one... I have found my way and made peace with the one who matters and sleep well at night...
    Last edited by TX-JB; January 2nd, 2010 at 12:48 AM. Reason: added comment and typos
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  10. #40
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carry4MyFam View Post
    LethalStang, Sleep well at night knowing that you will be judged by the only one that matters, for you are a good brother. I for one will help my fellow brother. Those of you that worry about law suits and such need to find your way...... IMO...
    Thank you. Someone else who knows the meaning of "self-sacrafice for the common good".
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

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  11. #41
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    No, I wouldn't charge into a gunfight like Clint Eastwood, but I also couldn't stand by and let someone get assaulted/raped/robbed/killed.
    Ron Paul 2012

    There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    That's exactly why I said "may." I have to decide whether or not I'm willing to take it to the next level.

    The whole reason I started carrying and training to begin with was because I KNEW I couldn't count on anyone else coming to my aide... that includes other concealed carriers. I don't expect them to help me and that's why I train and prepare to the dickens to make sure I'm able to defend myself and my own.

    If that makes me sound like a selfish person than so be it but I'd rather have a lifetime to look in the mirror and regret not acting on behalf of someone as opposed to missing the rest of my life with the people I love and who depend on me.


    I would not say it makes you selfish, I was just pointing out that using OC could lead to raising to another level of force.

    I'd also rather have a guilty conscience about not acting than a guilty conscience about intervening on the wrong individual's behalf. What if I killed the "true" good guy? Just imagine how guilty I'd feel then?

    That's why I stated it would have to be clear to me before I became involved.

    Two years ago I had different views. Two years ago I would have said I would have gotten involved, but becoming a parent has done a lot to change my way of thinking.

    My #1 responsibility is the safety of myself and my immediate family. I will try to help as long as my actions don't conflict with that #1 responsibility.
    Lima, I'm not knocking your decision. As I said earlier, everyone has a choice and I will not judge their choices. We are all free to make those decisions without ridicule from others as there are too many mitigating factors to weigh. In other words it's not so black and white.

    If I had children I may have the same opinion as you but I don't so I can't pretend to know if it would change how I would react. JMO
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  13. #43
    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carry4MyFam View Post
    LethalStang, Sleep well at night knowing that you will be judged by the only one that matters, for you are a good brother. I for one will help my fellow brother. Those of you that worry about law suits and such need to find your way...... IMO...
    Well said. When I pulled that lady from her burning car, I didn't think I was going to get sued for not being a certified first responder. Instead, I was wondering why no one else was stopping and helping me drag her from her car.

    I didn't get sued, btw. Nor did I get a thank you, though, to my recollection. I'm fine with that, because I knew what I did was right.

  14. #44
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    I went with...I would defend a 3rd party if it was lawful, however it would really depend on the situation. I wouldn't hesitate, unless doing so would turn the tables and place my life or families into a deadly situation.

  15. #45
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    I voted for protection of me and my family. IMO the other 2 choices are to general in scope. You come upon a fight you have no idea who or what caused it. The person you "protect" may very well be the instigator. A child screaming and fighting an adult may be a child not wanting to go with a parent, you have no way to know for sure.

    The case of an attempted rape or if you see and hear a robbery from the start is a different story. Unfortunately just coming around a corner and seeing one person holding a gun on another does not make the guy with the gun the bad guy. My first priority is myself and my family.

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