In defense of others

This is a discussion on In defense of others within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes Adults have the same rights to defend themselves as I do and have the same responsibilities as well as the same ...

View Poll Results: Would you use your gun in defense of others?

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  • My gun is used only for me and family

    37 17.79%
  • I would defend a 3rd party if it was lawful

    163 78.37%
  • I would only defend a 3rd party if they were a child

    8 3.85%
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Thread: In defense of others

  1. #121
    Senior Member Array BradyM77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Adults have the same rights to defend themselves as I do and have the same responsibilities as well as the same capacity to understand as I do. It is their own fault they are unprepared. I have me and my own to look after and that sometimes means not getting involved.

    However, we (individually and as a society) put different restrictions on children. They are too young to understand, comprehend, fight or possess the means of self-defense.

    I would be willing to defend a child if at all possible.
    What she said.
    "I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson

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  3. #122
    pax
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    Quote Originally Posted by LethalStang
    I also said ealier that i would not go in guns brandished and blazing, i would go in looking to stop the attack with whatever means necessary, be my hands, stick, or gun.
    That's good, if you've understood what's going on before you rush in.

    On the other hand, it's fairly common that when LEOs arrive on the scene of a confrontation, they often apprehend the wrong person and sometimes shoot the wrong person. They do this not because they are fools, but because they are not omniscient -- that is, they don't know everything when they first arrive on scene. If they did not see the situation begin, if they do not know the players involved, if they did not see what led up to the confrontation, it is not at all unlikely that they will confront, apprehend, or shoot the wrong person.

    Whether it's done by a cop or by a regular citizen, attacking the wrong person is a tragedy. It isn't something to take lightly. It isn't something to blow off with the presumption that even though others in the past might make such a mistake, nobody like us would ever do that.

    It is rather a cold shower of a wake up call, the sort of thing that sends shivers down the spine of any thoughtful and compassionate person -- especially one who believes in saving innocent life and protecting the helpless.

    Spend a little time with a search engine and you'll discover that there are a lot of smart, compassionate, courageous people who killed the wrong person (or simply shot the wrong person, or arrested the wrong person, or tackled the wrong person) in part because they simply could not bring themselves to fully believe that this sort of thing could in fact happen to them. And the people around them -- people they meant to save! -- paid dearly for their mistake.

    By the way, I'm not talking about the sort of mistake where the good guy misses his intended target and strikes a bystander. I'm talking about the sort of mistake where the good guy simply does not know the backstory, and makes an assumption about what is going on. For instance

    • a beautiful, nicely-dressed young lady wrestling with a scruffy looking male while she screams, "HELP! RAPE!!!" Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe he's a plainclothes vice squad cop arresting a high end hooker.

    • a large man standing behind the counter at a stop-n-rob, holding a gun pointed at a bloody, sobbing person lying on the floor at his feet. Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe the guy with the gun is a good citizen just like you, who intervened to save the clerk's life from an attacker, and the sobbing person at his feet was in fact the attacker.

    • a child struggling against an adult male, screaming "You're NOT my daddy!" as the man tries to stuff the child into a vehicle. Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe it's the kid's stepdad, and the kid is simply having a melt down for some other reason.


    In every one of these situations, a decent, honorable, courageous person with a firearm would be tempted to intervene to "stop the aggressor." And in every one of them, a reasonable and prudent person would make certain assumptions about who the aggressor actually is. And in every one of them, there's a chance that a truly innocent person will be badly injured or killed if that good samaritan gets the backstory wrong.

    I think some people here cant stand up for themselves and what they believe in so they ride the wagon with everyone else so they dont get ridiculed in a public forum.
    And there it is again. There are good people on both sides of this discussion, and I do believe personal attacks are against forum rules here anyway.

    I will not "play it safe" in terms of helping someone because im worried i might offend a jury and do a little time.
    Offending a jury isn't the worry. Killing the wrong person is the concern.

    But you knew that. :)

    pax
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    My website: Cornered Cat

  4. #123
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I have been asked to elucidate my position on this subject beyond simply stating the LT (and now PAX) has nailed it. So, here goes.

    First I am, again, convinced that a large percentage (please note I did not say all or even most) of participants in this forum have a hero complex and can not wait to deploy their handgun and be a “sheepdog” (your label not mine).

    I also believe that if the stars and gods all align and any of you ever get your one in a million shot at a defensive shooting, you had better pray that it isn’t even a little bit shaky or the DA isn’t up for re-election because he/she is going to crawl up your sigmoid colon W/ a microscope and when he/she finds your thousand plus posts here detailing your “obligation to protect the flock” and your intent to “go in guns blazing and shoot to kill” He’s going to paint you as “The Brave One” ( and he’d be spot on W/some of you) and throw your behind under the jail.

    I carry a gun for my own self defense. I am not obligated to intervene in your troubles I am certainly not obligated to endanger myself physically, legally or financially to do so and I won’t.

  5. #124
    Member Array LethalStang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax View Post
    That's good, if you've understood what's going on before you rush in.

    On the other hand, it's fairly common that when LEOs arrive on the scene of a confrontation, they often apprehend the wrong person and sometimes shoot the wrong person. They do this not because they are fools, but because they are not omniscient -- that is, they don't know everything when they first arrive on scene. If they did not see the situation begin, if they do not know the players involved, if they did not see what led up to the confrontation, it is not at all unlikely that they will confront, apprehend, or shoot the wrong person.

    Whether it's done by a cop or by a regular citizen, attacking the wrong person is a tragedy. It isn't something to take lightly. It isn't something to blow off with the presumption that even though others in the past might make such a mistake, nobody like us would ever do that.

    It is rather a cold shower of a wake up call, the sort of thing that sends shivers down the spine of any thoughtful and compassionate person -- especially one who believes in saving innocent life and protecting the helpless.

    Spend a little time with a search engine and you'll discover that there are a lot of smart, compassionate, courageous people who killed the wrong person (or simply shot the wrong person, or arrested the wrong person, or tackled the wrong person) in part because they simply could not bring themselves to fully believe that this sort of thing could in fact happen to them. And the people around them -- people they meant to save! -- paid dearly for their mistake.

    By the way, I'm not talking about the sort of mistake where the good guy misses his intended target and strikes a bystander. I'm talking about the sort of mistake where the good guy simply does not know the backstory, and makes an assumption about what is going on. For instance

    • a beautiful, nicely-dressed young lady wrestling with a scruffy looking male while she screams, "HELP! RAPE!!!" Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe he's a plainclothes vice squad cop arresting a high end hooker.

    • a large man standing behind the counter at a stop-n-rob, holding a gun pointed at a bloody, sobbing person lying on the floor at his feet. Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe the guy with the gun is a good citizen just like you, who intervened to save the clerk's life from an attacker, and the sobbing person at his feet was in fact the attacker.

    • a child struggling against an adult male, screaming "You're NOT my daddy!" as the man tries to stuff the child into a vehicle. Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe it's the kid's stepdad, and the kid is simply having a melt down for some other reason.


    In every one of these situations, a decent, honorable, courageous person with a firearm would be tempted to intervene to "stop the aggressor." And in every one of them, a reasonable and prudent person would make certain assumptions about who the aggressor actually is. And in every one of them, there's a chance that a truly innocent person will be badly injured or killed if that good samaritan gets the backstory wrong.



    And there it is again. There are good people on both sides of this discussion, and I do believe personal attacks are against forum rules here anyway.



    Offending a jury isn't the worry. Killing the wrong person is the concern.

    But you knew that. :)

    pax
    You have made the most understandable post on here to contradict what ive been saying and i respect that. I also respect everyones opinions on here, however misguided they may be....(j/k, saw that phrase on a movie somewhere) Seriously, im done arguing about this because we'll just end up in the same spot and possibly offended someone along the way. Keep carrying and do what you gotta do out there on the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    If you are living your life worried about being a victim all the time and not enjoying life to the fullest, you are already a victim...
    -You don't know what you don't see-

    1*

    NRA Member

  6. #125
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    a beautiful, nicely-dressed young lady wrestling with a scruffy looking male while she screams, "HELP! RAPE!!!" Clear cut? Maybe. Or maybe he's a plainclothes vice squad cop arresting a high end hooker.
    Actually happened in Texas, hubby came home and caught DW making out W/ boyfriend. DW screamed "RAPE" and hubby shot and killed the wrong guy. DW went to jail and alll for a peice of tail

  7. #126
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    My firearm will be used to defend me and my personal loved ones and no one else. Getting involved in some else's personal problems is a good way to end up in court and spend all of your resources 2,3 or 4 years down the road and be found not guilty and BROKE and out of several hundred thousand dollars. All of my finances has come honestly and I don't intend on losing it over my foolishness or the foolishness of others because when you get involved in someone's else's personal mess you don't know what precipated the invent or how it is going to end. Remember, prisons are the fastest growing industry in the country and they are not being built just for beautification of the landscape.

  8. #127
    JD
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    I'm thinking this thread has ran it's course and this is a good time to close before more issues arise.


    Closed during staff deliberation.


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