January 3rd, 2010 03:04 PM
ccw9mm has it right.
You're doing something bad and have been dogpiled for doing it. However, you had the sense to ask more experienced folks if it was a good idea.
So, everybody, cut the guy a little slack. Think for a second on how many people don't have the integrity to ask or the sense to even wonder if what they're doing is safe.
So, ep1953; good job on seeking information. Modify your practice and, if at all possible, get some training in safe gun handling and combat pistol techniques.
As has been mentioned, most ranges won't let you practice the techniques you need to master if you're going to carry a concealed weapon. IDPA is one of the best ways to practice these techniques in a safe, live fire environment.
The NRA is a good resource for finding local instructors: NRA.
More information on IDPA: International Defensive Pistol Association. If you have a local IDPA club, they will also be tuned in to local opportunities for training, and will be a good source of information as well.
January 3rd, 2010 03:09 PM
Again, no "dog piling" was intended. What we do here, at DC, is to kick around questions about mindset, procedure, safety, equipment, tactics and overall strategy. As is the case elsewhere, the only stupid question is the one not asked. Kudos for bringing up the question.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 3rd, 2010 05:54 PM
Originally Posted by raytracer
If I sounded overly critical, I apologize. We're all here to learn
January 3rd, 2010 05:57 PM
ccw I agree with you. Not every one has had training when it come to things that we would call common sense. You can go to a store and purchase a pistol or any fire arm for that matter and no asks you if you know how to use it. It was a good question and most any one who has written on this post know that we all have made mistakes when if comes to fire arm safety. So we can all be kind and thank God that nothing has happened with making this mistake and just pray that the same mistake will not be made on a day to do basis. It is very easy to get up tight when it comes to safety. Lets be generous and grateful that this person has asked the question and will hopefully no be doing this in the future
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Bring Enough GUN!!
January 3rd, 2010 06:16 PM
That is very dangerous. If you want to practice removing the safety while drawing do it while you have snap caps in it. That way you can practice firing also. Also put away all ammo before practicing.
"I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything!" Bart Simpson
January 3rd, 2010 06:58 PM
Snap caps or dry firing never loaded unless at the range
January 4th, 2010 05:03 AM
Exactly, I'm still a relatively new handgunner, and CCWer - about 3 years. In my state county, (Erie in NY State) there is LONG wait for permit applications. So, I used this time, at this and other forums, and people I know, to ask a thousand questions. It was extremely helpful. By the time I got the CCW, I already knew a LOT. Now that's not the same as then learning it in practice. But you can't learn in practice without knowledge of what you need to learn. Also, a lot of off-duty police shoot at my range, so I used them for practical advice and help also. Plus a family member, who's NRA Instructor. Ask a lot, I still do.
However, you had the sense to ask more experienced folks if it was a good idea.
Accidents and other misfortunes happen to those who think they know everything, and blindly go on.
January 4th, 2010 09:42 AM
Short answer, I seriously doubt the brick will penetrate, however there are factors such as grain and projectile type that I don't know.
Now for the real question, "Yes" unsafe as hell, never point a loaded gun at any thing you don't intend to destroy. Draw, aim and safety release drills are things that need to be practiced UNLOADED! Try unloading, clearing and re holstering the gun when you get home in a safe place, then "practice" as you do when you enter the bedroom.
If you ever asked yourself, "is this safe," it's not!
Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
January 4th, 2010 10:50 AM
Given your routine, I don't think the question is "if" you'll have a ND, the question is "when"?
Originally Posted by ep1953
Draw practice, trigger squeeze practice, sight alignment practice, reholster practice, etc., etc., can all be done with an EMPTY firearm. Prior to this kind of practice, unload and show clear. Then go to a different room (with NO AMMO) and conduct your practice. When you're finished, go back and reload and put it away safely.
KS CCH Instructor
US Army (Ret)
January 4th, 2010 12:41 PM
If you have to ASK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 4th, 2010 01:12 PM
Took guts to ask the questions. Good on you.
The answer is a definate, "yes, it is dangerous."
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
January 4th, 2010 02:40 PM
as others have said, yes its dangerous
good that you asked
good that you want to practice
bad the way you're doing it
get some snap caps
when you're ready to practice, drop mag, check that its unloaded, check again, and then check again racking the slide multiple times checking the chamber
load up some snap caps and you can practice trigger control, malfunction drills, etc in a safe manner
Certified Glock Armorer
"I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
January 4th, 2010 10:02 PM
My own opinion, yes I think it is an unsafe practice.
I also practice drawing just about every night but I always do it with an unloaded gun. Better safe than sorry.
January 6th, 2010 06:54 PM
Thanks for all the replies especially the ones that were constructive. To the holier-than-thou group, maybe some day I will be perfect also.
For those who were worried about my family getting shot, I live alone so no danger there.
For those who were worried about someone outside my house, that was the entire point of the question. In the event of a discharge, will the .45 ACP hollow point penetrate through an exterior brick wall? It is a full brick, not a veneer. There seems to be some disagreement on that subject from those who answered.
Because of this disagreement and due to the fact that there is another house located about 150 feet from my bedroom wall I have changed my procedure. Now I draw my gun facing a different wall that faces another hill on the other side of the holler I live on. The hill is unoccupied and according to Goggle maps the closest house in that direction is about 3 miles away on the other side of the hill.
I am sure I left a wrong impression with most people with my original question. I don’t practice a “quick draw”. I am in no particular hurry to draw the gun. When I get home the gun has to come out of the holster. I do add the steps of clicking off the safety and aiming at a spot. I do this to always be in the habit of clicking off the safety.
As I stated in the original question I always place my finger fully extended along the frame of the gun. That is, outside the trigger guard and not on the trigger. I’m not really worried about a ND because I am very conscious of keeping my finger off the trigger. However, being an ordinary human (hillbilly at that) it is possible that I could suffer from cranial rectal inversion syndrome some day and have a ND.
A few respondents gave the impression they didn’t think a loaded weapon should be touched. I am curious if they attempt to unload their pistols before removing them from the holster.
Once again, thanks for the replies. I look forward to any additional comments.
January 6th, 2010 07:05 PM
ep1953 I do not have data to share on hollowpoint performance vs a brick obstical but I do know a full metal jacket 230 grain bullet will penetrate a one inch thick concrete cinder block. There is a lot of energy in a slow .45 bullet please do not over estimate your backstop. Its better to set aside time to unload your CCW before practicing. Also just practice a draw is half the equasion. Live fire is the only way to really get a feel on how you can group the first few shots.
be safe and shoot safe
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