January 3rd, 2010 02:11 AM
Is my practice routine dangerous?
In another thread I mentioned that I practice draw every evening when I come home. I carry a S&W 4516 in a Smart Carry holster. When I get to my bedroom when I come home I draw the gun and click off the thumb safety while bringing the gun up to aim at my lamp. While bringing the gun to bear on the lamp I leave my trigger finger extended along the frame and not in the trigger guard.
I do this to be in the habit of always clicking off the thumb safety so that if I ever have to use my gun in self defense it will be ready to fire.
I figure that if I ever have a ND while doing this the only thing to be killed will be the lamp.
I do have a question however. The lamp sits against the outside wall of my house. The wall is drywall and the exterior is brick. If I did have a ND doing this exercise, would a .45 hollow point be likely to penetrate the outside wall?
January 3rd, 2010 02:18 AM
To answer your question, most likely no. If you've got hollow points in the chamber, not a chance. A FMJ....better chance but not likely.
And btw, very dangerous. If you have to ask such a question, maybe you shouldn't be doing it. I never ever play with a loaded gun. My weapon never leaves my holster unless I am putting it on my nightstand or using the bathroom (don't want it falling out and having an ND). IMHO you need to find a new way of to train yourself now before you do have an ND.
Just remember: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
January 3rd, 2010 02:23 AM
Not so good.
If I remember correctly, the 4516 is a DA/SA with a hammer dropper safety?
Why bother have the safety engaged when holstered? Once loaded, the safety drops the hammer and renders the weapon 'safe'. After that, one may move the safety to the 'fire' position without danger.
To answer your other question, the action is questionable. Practice drawing your weapon, certainly; but not loaded in a residence. The exterior brick will probably stop a single .45 round (meaning you could shoot through the wall with enough strikes in the same place.) However, doing so would make an ass of you. People would either giggle at you or avoid your presence as 'the guy who shot his lamp' or both.
I'd suggest only doing this exercise with an empty weapon.
January 3rd, 2010 02:27 AM
You need to curtail your carrying until you get the safety rules down. You're asking for many more problems that you anticipate. And yes, you do stand a huge chance of penetrating more than you think.
If you insist on practicing your draw (which when done safely you should) take the time to do it right. Snap caps, or dry fire but only after you clear and make the gun safe. No live ammo in the area you practice and stop doing live draws on anything you don't plan to destroy.
January 3rd, 2010 02:36 AM
That's really scary. The other posters have said the rest.
January 3rd, 2010 03:23 AM
"Is my practice routine dangerous?"
Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!
Stupidity should be painful.
January 3rd, 2010 04:15 AM
Of course it's dangerous... what are you going to do when you have a ND and it goes through the bricks and kills the kid next door, playing in his yard....
If you have to ask... you probably shouldn't be carrying at all...
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston
NRA Life Member
January 3rd, 2010 05:03 AM
I practice draw all the time and sometimes in front of a video camera to find my flaws. If you are going to practice a load weapon draw the only safe place to do so is at the range. If the weapon goes off there is no telling were that round will go. You may kill the lamp with an ND, but you may kill what ever is on the other side of the wall. Like someone next door or worse yet one of your family members. You never draw a loaded gun unless you are intending to shoot someone or something. The Range is the only place to practice with a hot weapon
If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Bring Enough GUN!!
January 3rd, 2010 05:50 AM
Actually, tests have shown that most hollow points, when striking drywall, tend to not expand. Instead the plaster fills the hollow making the round essentially a full metal jacket after that point.
Originally Posted by CarryOrDie
Olympic Arms, Inc. - Real World .223 testing
I used to think the same thing, BTW, until I was proven wrong.
The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the over penetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition.
The hollow point cavity in the .40S&W round filled with material when shot through the wall. This caused [these bullets] to fail to expand when they entered the gelatin. As a result, they penetrated 8.5" farther than when shot directly into the gelatin.
When the .223 [HP] was shot through he wall it began to fragment and as a result penetrated the gelatin only 5.5".
Because the .223 [HP] begins to break up on impact, it has less potential for damage or injury than the 12 ga. in the event of a ricochet. The .223 [HP] is obviously safer in an urban environment than the 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot.
Additional testing conducted proved that the .223 would penetrate a car door or glass. The .223 rounds fired into windshields began to break up after entering the glass and did not retain much energy. In most cases these rounds split in two.
Also, to answer the OP's question, yes, your practice is dangerous.
January 3rd, 2010 05:58 AM
Only thing I will add to what others have said is this -
If you decide to carry with the hammer down and the safety set to "fire" you still need to practice putting the safety from "safe" to "fire" when you practice your draw (with an unloaded pistol). This is just in case the safety gets bumped into the "safe" position while in the holster. Don't just assume it is on "fire."
Don't feel too bad - as long as your finger is off the trigger, you won't have a ND. I'm not too familiar with that pistol, but I think you are a long DA trigger pull away from firing (correct me if I'm wrong). What you're doing is not much different than what folks who use Glocks or similar pistols (such as me) do every time we unholster the pistol (finger off trigger, no manual thumb safety) to put it away. Same with a revolver - long DA trigger pull, no thumb safety. The difference is where you point it, how quickly you unholster, whether your brain is engaged, and the quality of your backstop.
If you're going to repeatedly practice your draw, then unload it first. Otherwise, find a safer location and a better backstop.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
January 3rd, 2010 07:13 AM
IMO, it's a bad idea to practice anything with a loaded gun. The only time I practice with a loaded gun is at the range and that's strictly target practice. Just my .2 cents.
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
January 3rd, 2010 08:10 AM
1. Never point a gun anything you are not willing to destroy.
2. Be sure of your target and backstop.
It seems to me you are not sure of your backstop. Good judgment would seem to preclude practicing in your home. This is what ranges with safe backstops are for.
Also it has been my personal policy to assume that all guns are always loaded, always.... Even after I just unloaded them and checked to make sure they are unloaded.
I would find a place that I was certain had a safe backstop to practice.
January 3rd, 2010 08:28 AM
The fact that you even asked this question, worries me.
Originally Posted by ep1953
Please learn some firearm safety before you hurt or kill someone!
Practicing anything with a loaded weapon anywhere but at the range is a NO-NO!
That said I do practice draw drills at home, only when I am the only one home and only with an UNLOADED weapon. I empty the firearm and lock the ammo in the safe with the other firearms, holster, set a timer and go about my "normal" routine. The timer is my signal that somebody has come into the house, I need to draw, move to cover, and take aim. Even at this point I don't pull the trigger, my finger remains indexed along side of the frame.
Dry fire exercises are a separate drill and done on alternate days. Those are done with a target taped to the wall, laser equipped guns I watch that laser for any unwanted movement, non laser equipped guns the drill is done with a dime balanced on the front sight.
ANY drills done anywhere but the range are ALWAYS done with an UNLOADED firearm. No firearm is proven to be unloaded until it is checked at least twice.
Please learn the firearm safety rules, or take a class on firearm safety and DO IT NOW!
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
January 3rd, 2010 08:29 AM
Is my practice routine dangerous? YES
So long as this is done with an unloaded gun, there is no danger.
Originally Posted by ep1953
With a loaded gun, there is ... obviously so.
I wouldn't worry about the lamp. I'd worry about what's beyond. IMO, unless you're doing this sort of live-round drilling on a range or other known-safe zone, you're playing with fire. Your draw/reholster drill has nothing to do with rounds. Thus, there is no reason to have a loaded gun while you're doing it. I suggest removing the ammo and ensuring the gun is clear, for safety's sake.
You know this. You're here asking if it's safe and mentioning fears of penetrating the outside wall. Keep in mind the lamp isn't the only thing along your sight lines. It's merely the first thing along that line. Ask yourself if a 3yr old child could be along that line. If yes, then I think you know what the answer should be to your routine.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
January 3rd, 2010 09:02 AM
Practicing draws with a loaded weapon is asking for a ND, not to mention flirting with disaster. While probably 99% of the time the round would not penetrate the brick wall, do you want to take that chance?
If you want to practice your draw at home, unload your gun before you start your practicing.
By DaveH in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
Last Post: November 11th, 2010, 12:01 PM
By DaveH in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
Last Post: June 25th, 2010, 02:44 AM
By Black Nov in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: August 16th, 2009, 01:59 PM
By pmaapl in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
Last Post: February 23rd, 2008, 12:12 PM
By Doc Holliday in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
Last Post: March 20th, 2007, 02:57 PM
Search tags for this page
da pull on 4516
drawing practice routine
hollow point wall penetration
i practicing dry fire dangerous?
Click on a term to search for related topics.
» DefensiveCarry Sponsors