Druggist's lawyer sour at leak of report on youth - Page 4

Druggist's lawyer sour at leak of report on youth

This is a discussion on Druggist's lawyer sour at leak of report on youth within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thumper Once the threat was no longer imminent the shooting should have stopped... I'm thinking the pharmacist did use excessive force. Just ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Once the threat was no longer imminent the shooting should have stopped... I'm thinking the pharmacist did use excessive force.

    Just goes to show that if you're going to have and use a gun for self defense, you need to train your brain as well as your muscles! Rehearsing scenarios in your head is good practice!
    +1 yup, IMO he should have never shot the guy again. From the perspective the camera offered, it clearly looks like a premeditated execution. Bad decision on his part for sure.

    On a side note; It's to bad the shooter got away and the slow fella paid the ultimate price for the dumb decision to ride the robbery train.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson


  2. #47
    pax
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    Deliberately executing an unarmed, unconscious, and immobile man -- even a man who had earlier threatened you -- is not an "understandable mistake." It is murder.

    If Ersland walked past the unconscious man, turned his back on the unconscious man, unlocked a drawer to retrieve a second weapon, and then calmly walked up to the unconscious man and "finished the job," that was murder. Premeditated murder, as he had to retrieve the weapon from a locked drawer and that took both time and intent.

    Of course it is possible that the allegedly unconscious man was actually conscious, moving, and a threat and if that's the case, Ersland's actions were utterly justified. But if Ersland did what the prosecutor is alleging he did, it was murder.

    pax
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  3. #48
    Member Array HardCorps79's Avatar
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    A couple observations:
    -There was a post a while back. NEVER TALK TO THE POLICE! (YouTube - Dont Talk to Police)

    This man may still have had some issues to face legally, but his inconsistent stories can do nothing to help him. They will probably be his undoing.

    When I was a cop, we had to write 3 reports after any serious use of force. One was immediately afterward, then we had to write another one the next day. Then we had to write a third one a week later. The reason for this is that your brain doesn't always process everything that occurs, and adrenaline can cloud your memory and judgment. There may be things your brain observed, but they haven't registered in your memory. They may help or hurt your case. But you won't know until you talk to a lawyer.

    2. It's possible the man was still alive. Marines with fatal head wounds have still had that last momentary presence of mind to pull a grenade under themselves. Sgt. Rafael Peralta has the Navy Cross (posthumously) to prove it. If this punk was alive, who's to say whether he was or was not moving? Is there more evidence from the crime scene or autopsy than what we're seeing? At what angle did the bullets enter the body? As we've discussed plenty on here, someone that's "down" isn't necessarily "no longer a threat". What exactly did the defendant think he saw? We've all seen the movies where the BG pretends to be dead. Some of us have seen it in urban combat with our own eyes.

    3. If the head wound WAS fatal, then quite possibly there is no other charge than desecration of a body, as Paramedic 7... put forth.

    The guy may have a defense as a vet, if he's able to establish PTSD as a cause for his actions. There was a case we studied in my civil liberties class where a Navy Petty Officer chased some unruly youths down the road outside his house and shot one of them. Turns out they had just shot a ball-bearing through his window with a sling-shot, but it sounded like a gunshot, and triggered a reaction in him. He was eventually acquitted. (Adrian Crump, Jacksonville, FL 1992). The item was featured on 48-Hours "Lethal Encounter". Haven't been able to find it online, though.

    I hate to see guys playing it this way, but if it's legit, it's legit. Some of us aren't quite right since we've come home. Day to day is good, but an ingrained threat-response is hard to subdue. Some can hack it, some can't. That's why you should always be polite. Never know when you're going to piss of some crazy vet with a gun.

    Legally, the guy may be screwed. Morally, as far as I'm concerned, this kid took his life in his own hands when he decided to commit a felony.
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  4. #49
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
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    I agree he should not have fired again unless the BG was still a threat. Since the BG was on the floor out of camera range we have only the pharmacists word for what happened.

    If I were on the jury this would create doubt in my mind and I would vote to acquit.

  5. #50
    Member Array HardCorps79's Avatar
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    In most states, especially conservative states, they'll never convict on Murder I. This would be Murder II, crime of passion/heat of the moment. The pharmacist didn't stake out the kids house and violently break in to kill him. Other way around.

    This could also be a political move by the DA. Maybe the DA as a pro2A is going for the big one, gambling that the man will be acquitted, but also hoping that by trying it he'll show he's tough on crime, and a moderate when it comes to self-defense/carry, etc. Doesn't completely make sense, but then again, what does?
    NRA Certified Instructor (6 years)
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  6. #51
    pax
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCorps79
    If this punk was alive, who's to say whether he was or was not moving? Is there more evidence from the crime scene or autopsy than what we're seeing? At what angle did the bullets enter the body?
    In my first post on this thread, there is a link to the autopsy report. The autopsy report answers these questions very plainly: the head shot was a "graze wound" and "non-fatal." And the killing shots all entered the body at nearly the same angle & tragectories -- in other words, the body was not moving at the moment those shots were fired.

    Now, whether the hands were moving, that we do not know from the autopsy report. I suspect that there is crime scene evidence to that effect, however, as the extended interview with the DA (also linked in my first post, and well worth watching!) made quite a point of the position of the hands at the moment the shots were fired. Perhaps blood patterns or some other forensic evidence will tell that tale.

    Or perhaps the DA will not make the case he thinks he has.

    As we've discussed plenty on here, someone that's "down" isn't necessarily "no longer a threat".
    Absolutely agreed.

    But an unconscious, unmoving, unarmed man is no longer a threat.

    And if he were still a threat, why did the pharmacist walk past him with barely a glance, transfer his firearm to his non-shooting hand (no longer in a firing grip), turn his back on the downed man, walk to the end of the counter where the other firearm was stored, and calmly (rather than "tactically") walk straight up close to him before firing?

    For dirty-word sure, if I were there & thought the man were still a threat, I'd have sheltered behind the counter to take those final shots. Wouldn't you?

    If the head wound WAS fatal, then quite possibly there is no other charge than desecration of a body, as Paramedic 7... put forth.
    According to the autopsy report (linked in my first post), the head wound was not fatal nor likely to become so.

    The guy may have a defense as a vet, if he's able to establish PTSD as a cause for his actions.
    He is a vet.

    He is probably not a combat vet. According to the DA, he lied about his service records. (See this news report about his service records.) It will be hard for him to claim a PTSD defense since he was never in combat.

    However, perhaps the military records are wrong, and he was in fact overseas at the time his records show he was in the states.

    pax
    Kathy Jackson
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  7. #52
    Member Array HardCorps79's Avatar
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    Wow, PAX! You've got your ducks in a row. Thanks for clarifying. Looks like his goose is cooked. Thanks for all the info.

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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by vardenafil View Post
    most you guys dont realize how dangerous it is to be a pharmacist. I would wager that most of you guys on here just think its a laid back cushy desk job. as a pharmacist im always on high alert. most people we deal with are nice and normal... but we deal alot with the scum of the earth drug seekers etc...

    i think being a pharmacist is alot like working at a convenience store. its not a matter of IF you will get robbed but more a matter of WHEN. there is literally thousands of dollars worth of narcotics behind the counter at even given time. and nothing between me and the bad guys. most pharmacies like mine have little or no safety measures in place to prevent robberies. i ve been a pharmacist a little over 5 years now and have been robbed 6 times. weapons were present in each robbery. one place of employment (i no longer work there so things MAY have changed) had NO safety measures at all. we got robbed twice in one week. the cops were surprised that we did not have a survelliance camera in the pharmacy. we only had a camera when you walk in the front door. corporate pharmacies dont care about their employees or their drug stock both are replaceable. they have insurance. this lack of caring for the safety of their employees led me to get my CCW permit last year. i still do not carry to work as it is against company policy. i almost got fired over carrying a leather-man to work because it had a blade on it. i can only wonder what would happen if they found out i had a gun at work.
    i think this pharmacist made a few right decisions and a few mistakes. so i cant defend him on evry action he undertook. what will get him with the jury is the fact he #1 ran after the second bad guy #2 he went back to give the first bad guy a second helping of lead. however mistakes aside i do not think he should be prosecuted for this incident. those guys intended to rob the pharmacy. they should live or die by their decisions. i think if a bad guy dies in an act of a committing a major crime it shouldnt matter how he died. or what circumstances they died under.
    I hope there's no chance anyone could petition your licensing board for revocation if you get caught.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  9. #54
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    It was a revenge hit to be sure. Part of me wishes that if a BG decides to invade a home or business then they sign their own death warrant and that would be the end of the story...but then another part knows its wrong to take revenge into your own hands
    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -Suzanna Gratia Hupp

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