This is a discussion on Shoot or Don't? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIXTO Lets set aside the duty of a CCW just for a minute; You guys are telling me that there is an ...
Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.
It's my opinion if i was the target (or in iminate danger of being targeted) of some yahoo's bullet spraying, I'm probley shooting back.
An active shooter MUST be stoped and I'm not gonna think about backgrounds, overpenetration, or ballistics.
I don't EVER wanna find that out about myself though.
"Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008
(Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay
My opinion is that your first responsibility is to get your family and yourself out of harms way. Everything else is thirdly. Now if the active shooter prevents you from getting out of harms way you may need to remove the threat. Remember responding law enforcement will not be able to tell you from the actual threat and will respond accordingly. Until all potential threats are taken care of you will be treated the same as the actual threat. Do not refuse to obey the responding officers instructions. They are trained to remove armed threats that continue being threats and an unknown person with a gun in his hand is looked at as a threat. After everything is over then you can assert your innocent victim status. There have been many undercover officers shot by not responding to the instructions of responding uniformed officers. It is just as easy to mistake the legally armed citizen for the active shooter as it is a plain clothes or undercover officer.
With a handgun I still have the option to run or find cover. The handgun is an option when run for cover isn't working. To be honest, I don't carry the hardware for a prolonged firefight with a mass shooter, even on the occasion I have the 1911 and not the .38.
Ron Paul 2012
There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians
Bottom line is that it's not my job to start a gunfight in a public place. If the situation is such that my family or myself is in imminent danger, or the BG starts shooting at anyone else then all bets are off. If John Q. Public is in danger but it looks as if the situation will end without bloodshed (will the BGs just take the cash from the register and run?) then I like to think I'd have the presence of mind to not act too rashly. But there are a million permutations of any scenario you can dream up, and while this is a valuable discussion it is so frought with possibilities that who can say what you would do? Set some realistic and responsible ground rules for yourself and try to live by them should a really bad situation develop.
Not being an LEO and carrying via CCL you have no obligations to use your sidearm. Only draw it if you feel that your loved one or you are in immediate life threaten danger. Period, no exceptions…
Like an LEO you are responsible for each bullet you fire, until it comes to rest. So unlike a BG who can “spray and pray” you have to place each bullet precisely, while taking into consideration backstops and bystanders.
"not acting would allow the gunman to continue on his rampage and probably take out you" - I'm not going to allow someone to shot me. Sorry to the folks beyond the creep but if he is coming after me I will do my best to take him out without hurting anyone else, but I will take him out.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
IF he is shooting people, and
IF LEOs are not present, and
IF I can get a clear shot (and I will work to do so),
THEN I will shoot.
Concur with the idea that you have no legal obligation to defend others. I think I have a moral obligation to act if capable.
Consider backstop options, at least something to slow it down. Since I use hollow points specifically to reduce the risk of overpenetration, I think I'd engage when able.
To help reduce the risk of hitting innocents, consider an upward or downward angle. Sometimes just taking a knee can give enough upward angle to *reduce* the chance of through and through bullet striking anyone on the other side with enough velocity to do serious damage. At other times being able to engage from a slightly higher elevation can put the bullet in the ground (even if it ricochets it will lose a lot of velocity in the process).
Of course the actual circumstances will always come into play regarding proximity of family, direction of shooter, availability of cover, etc.
KS CCH Instructor
US Army (Ret)
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-- Benjamin Franklin
What if you do nothing and the rampage continues killing 20?
You are right though, there are no easy answers to this one. Each situation will be a lot different than the next. Until a real life scenario presents itself, we will never know what we actually will do.
"Just blame Sixto"