Shoot or Don't?

Shoot or Don't?

This is a discussion on Shoot or Don't? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey, was reading the Disney world carry thread and saw someone say there isn't really anywhere you would have a solid backstop. So, I was ...

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Thread: Shoot or Don't?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Shoot or Don't?

    Hey, was reading the Disney world carry thread and saw someone say there isn't really anywhere you would have a solid backstop. So, I was wondering if you were in Disney World, or a similar situation, and a crazy ex-employee was going on a shooting spree and you got him in your sights, but the bullet might over penetrate and hurt innocent bystanders but not acting would allow the gunman to continue on his rampage and probably take out you and dozens of others, what would you do?

    What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?

    I'm not asking to be facetious, I'm looking for discussion because I don't know what I would do.
    Ron Paul 2012

    There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians


  2. #2
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?

    I'm not asking to be facetious, I'm looking for discussion because I don't know what I would do.
    Engaging a shooter while police are there? It won't end the way you think. As a former cop, you will be neutralized just as quickly as the shooter, and probably get mentioned on the evening news a a 'second shooter', who police are trying to link to the original crime.

    If the pros are there, DO NOT decide to lend your expertise...
    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
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    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    I probably would not shoot, unless my own life (or family member) was in immenent danger. If I were to miss, or kill someone in the process, I would probably be charged with the killing, and even if aquitted, would face civil suits. My life would be ruined.

    My responsibility as a CCW citizen, is to protect myself and family, and not to be a LEO. I know that sounds cold and callous, but that's the responsibility we take when we decide to CCW. My 2 cents.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
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    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    Engaging a shooter while police are there? It won't end the way you think. As a former cop, you will be neutralized just as quickly as the shooter, and probably get mentioned on the evening news a a 'second shooter', who police are trying to link to the original crime.

    If the pros are there, DO NOT decide to lend your expertise...
    *facepalm* didn't think about that.
    Ron Paul 2012

    There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array BRTCP88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInNY View Post
    I probably would not shoot, unless my own life (or family member) was in immenent danger. If I were to miss, or kill someone in the process, I would probably be charged with the killing, and even if aquitted, would face civil suits. My life would be ruined.

    My responsibility as a CCW citizen, is to protect myself and family, and not to be a LEO. I know that sounds cold and callous, but that's the responsibility we take when we decide to CCW. My 2 cents.
    OK, let's say you're the next target for the BG.
    Ron Paul 2012

    There are three kinds of Yankees: Yankees, Damn Yankees, and Floridians

  6. #6
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    OK, let's say you're the next target for the BG.
    Entirely different. Have at him.

    BUT, the second he's down, if you see ANYTHING that looks like a uniform, dump your magazine, clear the weapon, make it VERY obvious you are not an active shooter...

    Personally, the split-second he's down, I'd put the weapon on the floor, put a toe over it, to retain some control, and put my hands on my head while LOUDLY explaining what just happened. If a second shooter pops up, you can always go for your weapon, but *NOT* if a cop is there, it won't go well...
    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
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  7. #7
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post
    *facepalm* didn't think about that.
    I was on the job a year, I had a guy holding another one at gunpoint, using a .308. When we arrived, the 'bad guy' was unarmed, and the 'good guy' refused to drop his $2,000+ scoped rifle. I asked him how much it would be worth if we shot it and him, since all we had then were shotguns. He got the hint.

    Turns out, the bad guy had been assaulting a woman, but on first arrival, it almost looked like the homeowner was going to execute him.

    Mr. Gun Owner had some explaining to do...
    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
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    Member Array ImChad's Avatar
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    What would I do? Ask myself the question I always ask. "Am I in danger" if the answer is yes, I'm going to get out of danger, any way I can. If it's engaging, fine. If it's hiding, fine. I dont' carry to protect the sheeple, I carry to protect me and my family.
    They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.

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    Member Array Blue Jacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRTCP88 View Post

    What if it wasn't a mass shooter, but a bank robber who's decided to start shooting people because the police have him surrounded?
    You better make a good witness. If the cops are nearby, be an observer, hit the ground, follow the officers instructions, etc. Bank robbers don't have BR stenciled on their forehead. If you have a gun in hand and want to be a hero, prepare to met your maker.

    Regarding the Disney World scenario, no way would I carry a firearm into that park packed with people. PERIOD! But for your sake, assuming it's a warm summer day, I'd be carrying my pocket LCP. So that means protection of my immediate family ONLY.

    It really doesn't matter anyway. This is a question proposed on the internet. What if? Not one member knows for sure what he would do. Hopefully ones brain would engage and make the right call.
    May we never forget those in uniform who protect us night and day in lands far away. And those in all wars who paid the supreme sacrifice in defense of our country. May God Bless our Troops and First Responders.

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    Mic
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    I CC for self protection and my family. All states have a clear "protection of others" law witch you should be familiar with.

    As far as the "no clear backstop" issue, that depends on many factors such as caliber of the fire arm, ammunition, target range, moving or stationary, shooter proficiency, etc...etc... end state, you will live with the decisions you make
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  11. #11
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Easy answer. If a shooter is going after me or my family, and my handgun is my final and only option, then it's the last option. If things are that crazy, I doubt you'll be analyzing the physics of caliber, back-stop, angle of shot, etc.

    I am not a LEO, a LEO wannabe, or a superhero. It's not my job to chase down and perforate crazies, killers, or wackos at theme parks. Personally, I simply prefer to avoid theme parks, but that's just me.

  12. #12
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    Lets set aside the duty of a CCW just for a minute;

    You guys are telling me that there is an active shooter (that mean he is actively shooting people) and you will not put him down due to backstop issues? Seriously?
    You'll allow this guy to continue to kill people because you don't have a suitable backstop? A situation like this is not a range exercise. Its real world.

    I'm not saying one should spray and pray, but this is a no win; risks will have to be taken to stop an active shooter. The only thing that's going to do it is an aggressive response.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    If he's in my proximity and my family is in direct danger, I'm gonna close the distance between the two of us and take the idiot down by any means necessary. If I'm armed, then yes I'd fire on the BG from a squatted or kneed position where the open sky is my BD.

    As far as the bank robber goes, let the law handle it... No brainer.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

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    Member Array mchasal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    BUT, the second he's down, if you see ANYTHING that looks like a uniform, dump your magazine, clear the weapon, make it VERY obvious you are not an active shooter...
    Maybe a minor issue, but is this a good idea? Given an LEO presence I'd think you'd want to get that gun out of your hand ASAFP. Doing the manipulations to clear will obviously take some time and may appear as something different to the officer. Like you've got a jam and trying to get a shot off. I'd just engage any safety and lay the gun down.
    Your primary concern in those 3 seconds is to not get shot. Once you have no weapon in hand, you can clear up who you are in a much better environment.
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    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    The first thing you should consider is the really the first rule of handling a gun in the first place. "Know what your shooting at before you shoot." I was at the Minn. State Fair this year with my nephews (im the fun uncle) and the same situation crossed my mind as I was carrying at the time. In a crowd full of people, you must be 110% confident of your skill and ability to hit the BG. I would have grabbed my young crew by the shirts and hauled it in the opposite direction. If followed, then its show time. Im not too sure about Florida law, but in MN, if you use deadly force to protect yourself,or stop a dangerous felony in progress, then you are exempt from criminal and civil penalties. The question that remains is if that rule can be applied to any unfortunate innocents that may be hurt as a result.

    As for the BG being surrounded by the cops, drawing is the last thing you want to do. I mean c'mon theyre police, theyre trained to take down BG's, so let them do their jobs and dont play hero.

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