CC permit holders as air marshals

This is a discussion on CC permit holders as air marshals within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Given the most effective response so far to terrorists on planes (think of the flight over Pennsylvania, the shoe bomber and the most recent incident ...

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Thread: CC permit holders as air marshals

  1. #1
    Member Array 1gunsnowbird's Avatar
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    CC permit holders as air marshals

    Given the most effective response so far to terrorists on planes (think of the flight over Pennsylvania, the shoe bomber and the most recent incident over Detroit), I think there might be a groundswell of support for deputizing certain licensed concealed carry holders to be pemitted to carry concealed handguns on all flights within the continental borders of the U.S.

    It would be relatively simple to set up computer verification of a CC holder's permit at the check-in gate and would free up the trained air marshals to deal with international flights. Perhaps a database of qualified IDPA and IPSC shooters could be established to make certain the CC holder is proficient and rated at least Expert or Master with his weapon.

    What a deterrent!!! Once the terrorists realized they were potentially surrounded by gun-toting citizens, they might hesitate to plan some of these attacks.

    What do you think? So far the unarmed passengers have proven to be the most effective at thwarting their plans ...
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - Tom Waits

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Will never happen.

    That would require deputizing citizens at the Federal level and offering them civil immunity too.
    It would make more sense and better logistics to assign military protective agents to flights ala the Coast Guard as in concept.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    I would sign up in a heartbeat. Just because somebody has renewed their ccw permit for the last 50 years does not reflect when the last time they fired the gun.

    I would take the FAMS class if possible just for the close combat training.

    Or just pass out bats to random people.

  5. #4
    DrJ
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    Agree it will never happen, and to be honest, I don't think it would help at all. Remember, all of the recent hijackings were SUICIDE missions. They were planning on dying along with everyone in the plane. How would the threat of being shot prevent that?

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    nope the anti's would come up with all their BS... "Oh what if someone takes the gun from the person and uses it on other people?" to much risk as far as i see...

    But how about every flight Attendant must be federally certified and take a courses....
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    Im reminded of Star Ship Troopers, "The enemy can not push a button if you immobilize his hand!"-Sgt Zimmerman after throwing a knife into a trainees hand.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

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    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    First it will never happen.
    Second it is not a good idea in my view.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mm10mmamen View Post
    Given the most effective response so far to terrorists on planes (think of the flight over Pennsylvania, the shoe bomber and the most recent incident over Detroit), I think there might be a groundswell of support for deputizing certain licensed concealed carry holders to be pemitted to carry concealed handguns on all flights within the continental borders of the U.S.

    It would be relatively simple to set up computer verification of a CC holder's permit at the check-in gate and would free up the trained air marshals to deal with international flights. Perhaps a database of qualified IDPA and IPSC shooters could be established to make certain the CC holder is proficient and rated at least Expert or Master with his weapon.

    What a deterrent!!! Once the terrorists realized they were potentially surrounded by gun-toting citizens, they might hesitate to plan some of these attacks.

    What do you think? So far the unarmed passengers have proven to be the most effective at thwarting their plans ...
    I think you need to be a fully trained LEO - with extra emphasis on aviation protection. So no - bad idea. I would not want just anyone with a permit\license to board a plane with a firearm.

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    groundswell of support for deputizing certain licensed concealed carry holders to be pemitted to carry concealed handguns on all flights within the continental borders
    Nope. Never. Ain't gonna happen.

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    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    I think that we should look closely at how the Israelis (El Al) handle in-flight security. Instead of deferring responsibility to the government (such as our Federal Air Marshals), the airline provides its own in-house private security officers for every flight. They are HEAVILY armed, and supposedly most are former Mossad or Israeli Special Forces.

    Honestly, I dont understand why US airlines havent done this already. They own/lease the aircraft, not the government. The airlines have a vested interest in keeping their customers and employees safe, and aircraft intact. Thus, the airlines should have the right to place armed security personnel onboard if they wish, because it is impossible for a FAM to be on every flight.

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    Senior Member Array firefighter4884's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    First it will never happen.
    Second it is not a good idea in my view.

    Regards,
    Jerry
    Jerry,

    Any particular reason it's not "a good idea" in your view? That's the same attitude that the anti's have about carry in all circumstances.

    While I agree that it won't happen any time soon, that's for political reasons, not because of any safety issues.

    I'll pose the same question to flyboy....

    --Jim
    Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.

    ~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~

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    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    I think that we should look closely at how the Israelis (El Al) handle in-flight security. Instead of deferring responsibility to the government (such as our Federal Air Marshals), the airline provides its own in-house private security officers for every flight. They are HEAVILY armed, and supposedly most are former Mossad or Israeli Special Forces.

    Honestly, I dont understand why US airlines havent done this already. They own/lease the aircraft, not the government. The airlines have a vested interest in keeping their customers and employees safe, and aircraft intact. Thus, the airlines should have the right to place armed security personnel onboard if they wish, because it is impossible for a FAM to be on every flight.
    +1
    If you have a large group of customers or friends, such as a concert, wedding, gun show, or sale, you have to provide your own security. It's not that far of a leap to airlines providing for the safety of their customers during flights, and much more likely than allowing CC on flights.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

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    Member Array G30shooter's Avatar
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    While I agree with most, that it'll never happen it is an interesting idea - an auxiliary or reserve cadre of the Air Marshall's.

    It would be a logistical nightmare. In addition to the problems mentioned by other posters already: 1) coordination of the activity of multiple armed auxilists/reservists on the same flight (who most likely have no experience with one another); and 2) qualification, training and certification would seem to be a daunting task for an organization already understaffed and underfunded.

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    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Would I still be allowed to have a Bloody Mary and go to sleep?
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    As far as genral CWP being a license to carry on a plane, I don't think that is a good idea. Your suggestion to have registered Masters or Experts be a requirement is getting closer to what would seem logical. How about one step further, if they created a class/certification program with deputy air marshal (specifically for purpose of security on a plane with no other duties or responsibilites). I think there are plenty of us in the CC community who would be willing to go through the hastle and jump through the hoops to be able to protect ourselves on airplanes.

    As good as it sounds though, I still can't see it ever happening. And with the way our government is trying to grab as much power as possible in any area, I don't think we should expect the privatization of air security anytime soon either.
    Walk softly ...

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