Opinions on this

Opinions on this

This is a discussion on Opinions on this within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just saw this on the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners website. Seems kind of "off" to me. Anyone else care to make an ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Opinions on this

    I just saw this on the Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners website.

    Seems kind of "off" to me.

    Anyone else care to make an opinion?

    Michigan Rules for Arrest, Advice to Gun Owners


    Michigan – -(AmmoLand.com)- An arrest is the stopping or restraint of a person that requires them to remain within certain specified limits. Any time someone stops me from going where I have a right to go, I have been “arrested”. When the security guard stops me from leaving the store and asks to look into my shopping cart; when the TSA employee demands to see my boarding pass; when a child stands in the door and wants me to stay home and play; when the police officer pulls me over I have been arrested.

    The question is whether the arrest is proper and how much force is allowed in making a proper arrest.

    The rule of reasonableness applies throughout the rules governing arrest. To avoid consequences in all situations, the actions of the person making the arrest must be reasonable.

    A private person can use more force than a police officer to arrest a fleeing felon without criminal consequences; but in more limited circumstances. Michigan courts have ruled that the use of deadly force by a private person to prevent the escape of a fleeing felon is justifiable where the following three circumstances are present: (1) the evidence must show that a felony actually occurred, (2) the fleeing suspect against whom force was used must be the person who committed the felony, and (3) the use of deadly force must been necessary to ensure the apprehension of the felon. (That is, if the arrestee resists the arrest or would escape without the use of deadly force.)

    This third circumstance is another way of saying the use of deadly force must be reasonable. If the fleeing felon has stopped and is awaiting the arrival of the police, the use of deadly force is not reasonable. Likewise the use of deadly force before calling out to the felon to stop is probably unreasonable.

    On the other hand a police officer is bound by the constitutional prohibition against unreasonable arrests. The U. S. Supreme Court has ruled that it is per se unreasonable for a police officer to use deadly force to stop a nonviolent fleeing felon who poses no danger to the officer or others. Thus, there is a fourth circumstance that applies to the police but the police can arrest with probable cause. So the rule for police use of deadly force is: 1) the officer must have probable cause to believe that a felony actually occurred, (2) the officer must have probable cause to believe the fleeing suspect against whom force was used is the person who committed the felony, (3) the use of deadly force must been necessary to ensure the apprehension of the felon, and (4) the fleeing felon must pose a danger to others if not stopped. (The danger can be shown by the nature of the crime the person is fleeing from. An armed robber is always dangerous. A burglar may be dangerous.)

    A private person may make an arrest without civil consequences for the arrest if the person arrested has actually committed a felony. Probable cause or a reasonable belief is not good enough. The arrestee must actually be a felon. Liability can still attach if the arrest was done in an unreasonable manner.

    Police may arrest without a warrant with probable cause to believe a felony has been committed and probable cause to believe the person arrested committed it, or if a misdemeanor has been committed in the officer’s presence. An officer can always arrest if a warrant exists for the arrest.

    Michigan has changed many traffic violations from misdemeanors to civil infractions. There is now a specific statute allowing officers to detain motorists upon reasonable belief that the motorist committed a civil infraction.

    An improper or false arrest is rarely a criminal act. If the person making the false arrest forces the person arrested to go to another location it may become the crime of kidnapping. If the arresting person unreasonably uses deadly force and the arrestee dies it can be murder. But absent such aggravating circumstances the remedy for a false arrest is a civil suit for damages. Damages can include such things as mental anguish for public embarrassment, lost wages, costs of therapy needed to get over the embarrassment etc.

    A merchant or librarian, or their employee, may arrest a person if the merchant has reasonable cause to believe that the person has stolen something from the store or library. Reasonable cause is often a tricky concept. Often the merchant will ask the person if they have something that belongs to the merchant or to voluntarily accompany them to the back of the store. The best procedure of course is for the merchant to actually see the person put the steaks inside their pants before leaving without paying.

    A licensed, uniformed security guard has all the arrest powers of a police officer while on his employer’s premises.

    If wrong, a merchant or librarian is not liable for mental anguish or punitive damages if the arrest was made with probable cause and in a reasonable manner. He is still liable for actual damages.

    A theater owner can arrest, and hold for the police, a person the theatre owner has reasonable cause to believe was recording the movie.

    It is good to reiterate that an arrest must always be reasonable and done in a reasonable manner. If a person avoids any criminal consequences from using force in making an arrest, they can still be liable for civil damages if they made an unreasonable arrest or made a reasonable arrest in an unreasonable manner.

    DISCLAIMER: I have attempted to distill two semesters of law school into 1,000 words. Obviously this essay is generalized and incomplete. The reader should consult their own attorney for any specific questions.


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    Garbage. It's hardly worth a review.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    The Disclaimer says it all.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    The red light in front of WW arrested me today..

    bosco
    Last edited by boscobeans; January 12th, 2010 at 05:40 PM.

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array BenGoodLuck's Avatar
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    I think the author is suffering from arrested development!
    Ben

    Cogito, ergo armatum sum. I think, therefore I am armed. (Don Mann, The Modern Day Gunslinger; the ultimate handgun training manual)


  6. #6
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    Somebody needs some basic legal understanding prior to writing such articles.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #7
    JD
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    I stopped reading after this:

    Michigan – -(AmmoLand.com)- An arrest is the stopping or restraint of a person that requires them to remain within certain specified limits. Any time someone stops me from going where I have a right to go, I have been “arrested”. When the security guard stops me from leaving the store and asks to look into my shopping cart; when the TSA employee demands to see my boarding pass; when a child stands in the door and wants me to stay home and play; when the police officer pulls me over I have been arrested.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
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    It's great advice to follow if you want to get "arrested" (and spend some male-bonding time with Bubba).

    The disclaimer says it all - two semesters and he/she apparently has a learning disability.

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
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    I believe there's some technical differences between being arrested and being detained. I think one involves handcuffs and a ride in a police car. Let me think about that awhile.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #10
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    The author needs to learn AND UNDERSTAND the difference between being arrested, being detained and having to wait.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  11. #11
    JD
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    I really want to be shooting, but I have to work till 5, dang it I hate being arrested.

  12. #12
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    The first paragraph is puzzling considering the innumerable instances in which we are all temporarily detained in one way or another without being arrested.

    Following this logic, when a plane is unable to get to the gate (even if for an unwarranted length of time) the passengers have been arrested. Obviously untrue. Other words apply. Delayed, detained, restrained, held against their will, deprived of their right to depart the aircraft, deprived of their freedom, perhaps even kidnapped, but "arrested" just doesn't cut it.

    Since the opening paragraph is so clearly flawed, the rest isn't worth reading carefully if the opening premise must be true for the rest of it to be true.

  13. #13
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    That article is a good example of someone arguing from legal THEORY rather than Legal reality.

  14. #14
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    Funny timing ... I have an employee who needed some time off last Thursday so he could go down for his citizenship interview. The individual doing the interview with him asks tons of questions trying to get him to contradict his previous responses. One of the questions that tripped my guy up was when asked if he had been previously arrested. He responded “No” only to be further challenged by the interviewer "Haven't you ever been pulled over by the police in your car". “Well a few times” answers my employee. "Well you have been arrested then" says the interviewer.

    Go figure.
    To all you current and former military ... thank you for your service! Let no one forget that the sacrifices you have made allow us the freedoms we enjoy.

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    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Just goes to prove the old addage... A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Same happens a lot to first or second year med students.
    Walk softly ...

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