Is This Legal in WA? - Page 2

Is This Legal in WA?

This is a discussion on Is This Legal in WA? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Its not legal in Mass....

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Thread: Is This Legal in WA?

  1. #16
    Member Array whitetrashfarm's Avatar
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    Is This Legal in WA?

    Its not legal in Mass.


  2. #17
    pax
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    ak56,

    Well, I'm not a lawyer and you very well might be right.

    It's not really a point I would care to argue with a police officer on the side of the road, however.



    And your other points are cogent ones for sure!

    pax
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  3. #18
    Mic
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    I'm going to have to go out on a limb and disagree with pax on her reading of 9.41.050.
    The way that 9.41.050 is written, the 'and' is before the colon which precedes the enumerated list of (i), (ii) and (iii). The 'or' applies to all of the items in the list, so to be legal, you must comply with (a) and any one of (i),(ii) or(iii). As long as you have (a) a license to carry a concealed pistol and (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, you are legal. Not necessary to have it on your person.

    Having said that, I would not carry in the way shown for several reasons, one of which is the moment you step out of the vehicle, if there are no other license holders in the vehicle, you would be in violation unless you took it with you. Also, if I have to leave the vehicle in a hurry, I want the gun to automatically leave with me.
    Both make a good case for the "GREY AREA" but realy, is this rig a good idea? like so many have said, just holster it, nothng good comes from advertising you have a gun, it will be ther when you need it.
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    While I can't comment much on Washington law, I'll only say that I agree with ak56's interpretation of the syntax of the code. What you're willing to spend money on to defend in court though, is up to each individual.

    However, I will say that I do see some significant merit to the setup. IMHO, one of the most likely scenarios to occur while you are inside of your vehicle is a car-jacking. In that scenario, the quick access to this rig would seem to be a huge improvement over a firearm in a holster, with a cover garment over that, and further restricted by a seatbelt. I would not exit my vehicle and leave that firearm there, but while in the actual act of driving, this seems to me to be a good alternative. Not sure I could bring myself to drill holes into the side of my console, though.

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  5. #20
    Member Array HahnsXD's Avatar
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    I certainly wouldn't leave it there once out of the vehicle, it would either come with me or be concealed within my truck. But from what I gather from the RCW is that it may not even be legal for me to put my gun in my console while I'm driving. For example when I get in my truck in the morning, I place my gun in my console, drive to work and leave it there until the work day is over, including when I'm on lunch (it comes with me if I get out to go in a restaurant).

    If it is interpreted in the way of the gun must be on my person, then if I take a co worker to lunch in my truck I'm then obligated to remove the gun from my console and place it on my person...

    But after reading ak56s reply and then going over the RCW again it appears he's correct, the wording is just a little confusing..
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette

  6. #21
    GM
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    Quote Originally Posted by G19inLV View Post
    I don't know about it being legal in Washington, but that looks like a good set up.

    Oh, and by the way, if it is illegal...just stick it in your holster when you get pulled over....
    And what do you think it should happen if the LEO saw you doing that? Why recommend doing something if it is illegal and it could put that person in big trouble? It is your decision if you want to break the law, but please do not encourage other people in this forum to do the same.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak56 View Post
    I'm going to have to go out on a limb and disagree with pax on her reading of 9.41.050.

    ... As long as you have (a) a license to carry a concealed pistol and (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, you are legal. Not necessary to have it on your person.
    I agree with that reading as well.

    I still would highly discourage anyone from using any vehicle mounted holsters.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  8. #23
    Member Array CrackpotBob's Avatar
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    I once considered a seat holster but decided that if I were to have to leave the vehicle in a hurry, without thinking about it, my pistol will be with me.

  9. #24
    Member Array HahnsXD's Avatar
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    Sorry to drag this up but hear is an answer I received on another forum regarding carrying you weapon in your vehicle in WA while it's not on your person..
    The Attorney General for the State of Washington issued an opinion regarding this matter on March 13, 1987, in response to a query from State senator Kent Pullen.

    Senator Pullen asked the following:

    "May a person who possesses a valid concealed weapon permit, and who is within a vehicle, legally possess a loaded pistol within the vehicle which is not on his or her person?"

    I received a copy of the AG's opinion from Joe Waldron. I can't find an electronic version. The opinion was summarized in the last paragraph as follows:

    "In summary, the plain language of the statute, internal consistency and legislative intent all require an affirmative answer to your question. RCW 9.41.050 permits a person who possesses a valid concealed weapon permit, and who is within a vehicle to legally possess a loaded pistol within the vehicle which is not on his or her person."


    Richard A. Heath
    Sr. Assistant Attorney General

    cc: Christine O. Gregoire, Deputy Attorney General
    Chip Holcomb, Asistant Attorney General - WSP


    RCW 9.41.505 was ammended (HB 600) in 1982 to allow such carry in a vehicle. The old version specifically required that a loaded pistol be on a person while in a vehicle.

    HAve a good day.

    Jerry
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette

  10. #25
    Member Array HahnsXD's Avatar
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    I also just found this in a LEO training bulletin.
    SQUAD TRAINING
    It has recently come to our attention that a group calling
    itself, "Pacific Northwest Open Carry" and with a spokesman
    named Lonnie Wilson, has an agenda that deals with the
    peaceable open carrying of a handgun in a holster. He says
    that while doing his research to write an informational
    bulletin for the public and for law enforcement, he asked a
    number of BPD officers if it was legal to carry a handgun in
    public, in the open, in a holster. He says he received a
    variety of answers, ranging from, it is legal, to, it is a
    felony, to, you will be stopped and arrested for brandishing.
    As a refresher, the Corporals will go over the following:
    1. Washington is an "open carry" state for firearms. This
    means a person may carry a firearm in an exposed holster
    unless there is something that makes it specifically illegal.
    For example, carrying a weapon onto school grounds or other
    prohibited places or carrying a weapon by most convicted
    felons or anyone convicted of a domestic violence crime.

    2. Unlawful carrying or display. RCW 9.41.270 occurs when
    the person carries or displays a weapon in a manner under
    circumstances at a time and place that manifests alarm for the
    safety of persons or with an intent to intimidate. This is
    something more than just walking around with an exposed
    firearm. If there is a dispute for example and one person,
    while angry, displays the weapon to scare the other person.

    3. Carrying without a Concealed Weapons Permit, RCW 9.41.050,
    occurs when a person carries a CONCEALED pistol on his person
    and does not have a CWP. A person with a CWP can carry a
    firearm in a vehicle without having the weapon on his person.
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette

  11. #26
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    You carry like that in Pensacola,FL and the LEO's will have a lot of fun with you. not legal

  12. #27
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    If your permit allows you or you ever drive through OH that will be illegal. In OH you must have the gun on your side at all times. SO, barring any road trips you should be good to go. Just don’t EVER forget to have your permit along with your driver’s license & registration. Otherwise you may have an unhappy encounter with a LEO if you drive as fast as my wife does!
    If Guns kill people then all of mine are defective!
    My idea of gun control is using BOTH hands!

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  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G19inLV View Post
    I don't know about it being legal in Washington, but that looks like a good set up.

    Oh, and by the way, if it is illegal...just stick it in your holster when you get pulled over....
    Or, if it is illegal, don't do it.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  14. #29
    New Member Array Little Weaz's Avatar
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    I have to agree that it is legal. The way it is written, the gun can be anywhere in the vehicle as long as you are in the vehicle. If you leave the vehicle the the vehicle must be locked, and the pistol must be CONCEALED FROM VIEW FROM OUTSIDE THE VEHICLE!

    Imagine this scenario:

    You strap on your daily carry and go to Walmart. You check out the kung-fu movies and grab some nachos. Life is good. Then you get a text message from your ol' Lady that says "hit the P.O. box on the way home". So you go to the P.O. box and discretely disarm, slide your pistol into a gun rug that you secure under the seat. You then lock your vehicle and go into the Post Office. Upon returning you discretely re-arm yourself and go about your business. Completely Legal!!

    Scenario 2:

    You go to Walmart with Jimmy. You and Jimmy are good buddies, but he isn't really into carrying. He knows you carry though. You are in line for nachos, and Jimmy's mind is still on the kung fu movies. He keeps trying to karate chop you. Then you get a text from your ol' lady and she wants you to go to the Post Office. You are happy to get out of walmart because Jimmy is really embarrassing you. At the Post Office you disarm and put your carry rig under the seat in a gun rug. Jimmy stays in the vehicle to eat his nachos, and you go in and grab the wife's Avon.

    It would be illegal for Jimmy to stay in the vehicle even though he has nothing to do with the firearm.

    The exception would be if you unloaded the gun, secured it in an opaque wrapper. Then Jimmy could sit in the car with the gun in the vehicle, unless he was a convicted felon that has not had is right to possess a firearm restored.

    Weaz

    Edit: I have to do more research, but I think it still has to be "concealed from view from outside the vehicle" The point of this post is more to the fact that the gun can be "off body"

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