This is a discussion on Brandishing?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 19 Kilo I'm a little hazy on whether this is a rumor or a holdover from a revised statute, but I heard ...
While what you say is true, it depends on several assumptions:
1.) The customer complaining isn't panicked, irrational, vocal, etc.
2.) The mid-level register biscuit who approaches you understands all facets of both corporate policy and state law.
3.) If he brings LEOs along:
a.) They know corporate policy
b.) They are up for defending your right to carry a gun in the corn section of the store
c.) They aren't tired at the end (or start) of a shift and won't just ask you to take it on the arches to shut all the civilians up.
In the end, however, I think my point was more that the course covered the fact that in AZ, even if the store does NOT have the "No Guns" sign posted (which, BTW, is now a Desert Eagle with a circle-slash), they have the right to ask you to leave.
I was told when I took my CCW course that printing would be considering brandishing if a person calls/involves LE. It would be assumed the person felt threatened and that's, supposedly, all it would take. Further told concealed meant exactly that - out of sight. I'd rather not chance it so I conceal well.
Where did you take your class? Arizona doesn't even have a brandishing charge, its considered disturbing the peace.
i still can't believe a CCW instructor in AZ would give out such bad information.
Well, I recall the CCW class I attended here in ‘Lizard Spit’ Arizona and I’m fairly certain this is a typical over-reach of interpretation. Our young instructor was a full-time officer with the local PD and he never mentioned this or anything close to it. Believe me, it was covered, and it was rolled back to ‘use common sense’.
Essentially, an officer ‘can’ arrest you for practically anything if he/she is willing to bend or otherwise stretch the law or intent. Conversely, he/she will have to answer to their supervisor, the city/district attorney, the judge and his peers. As a former LEO, nobody likes it when a fellow officer acts like a jerk and makes a fool of the department or agency.
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Under AZ law, if you are in a self defense situation you may; state that you are armed, if the situation escalates you may show your gun, if it further escalates you may place your hand on your weapon. None of this is considered brandishing.This is a recently signed law. I cannot find anywhere in the statutes anything re: printing or accidental showing of a weapon considered brandishing. Suggest reading the Arizona Revised Statutes Chapter 13.
Last edited by Kahrdoor; January 14th, 2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Complete sentence.
I hate "instructors" like this. I wish they would do the gun world a favor keep their day jobs.
"Just blame Sixto"
FL law says the weapon must be concealed from "ordinary" view. Printing has nothing to with it; there is no FL statute regarding printing as brandishing. If it's covered, it's not in ordinary view. What someone might see "printing" may be a cell phone, keys, or an Ipod, which I see all the time. A lump cam be anything, and no lump can be called brandishing, where as taking the weapon out can be. There's so much "what I've ben told" and what I heard" out there that the only real answer is to look up yoour state laws regard the subject.
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Make yourself knowledgeable about the law as it applies to your state, your area. How does the law define brandishing?..Then and only then will you know.
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I'm from Arizona too although I'm currently in Iraq. Not an expert. You see a lot of open carry in AZ depending on the area. People generally don't get too upset at the sight of a gun. If you printed at the store and some hysterical hippie called the police it would be a tough sell to say you were brandishing. If you moved your outer garment aside to specifically show someone your weapon, in a threatening manner, that is considered brandishing. Or, if you're driving along and hold the weapon up so the occupants in the car next to you can see it, that's considered brandishing. Getting in trouble for printing in an open carry state would be a waste of time for everybody concerned. Just be sensible, dress conservatively and exhibit good manners and you'll never have any trouble.
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Had a PM from Saber and he ask that I add to my post. I was referring to Arizona Revised Statutes 13-421 when I posted that you could go as far as placing your hand on your gun in a self defense situation without it being considered brandishing.
Thanks guys. I searched the statutes and feel I understand now. There was one paper from a lawyer that suggests that a person that sees the weapon and becomes "fearful of imminent harm" could possibly press assault charges, but then again it was from a lawyer.
For the record, the class was given by Raven. They were not LEO's. It may be their way off pressing the "keep it concealed" point.
Thanks for the info!
As stated previously with Arizona being an open carry state if you were to reach up to grab an item or even bend down while in a store and your weapon were to become visible it would not be considered brandishing a weapon, it would simply no longer be concealed which is perfectly legal here in Az.
Even if there were to be a hysterical (uneducated) customer that was deathly frightened and notified management or the police that you were carrying a gun you wouldnt receive any sort of infraction/punishment for it as you have every legal right to carry (in permissable carry areas: no banks, city parks, gov buildings or places where it has been posted no weapons allowed). Even if a manager or store employee were to call the police the officers would not and could not respond under Az law unless you were asked to leave the store by store management and you refused to comply (trust me, happened to me when I was 17 and my manager advised me to contact the police due to a guy carrying a gun at the Blockbuster I worked at and that was the exact response the operator had, "Have you asked the gentleman to leave? Is he displaying it in an aggresive or threatening manner?"). At that point if you are asked to leave and you dont it does becomes trespassing and then the police would respond and their response probably wouldnt be kind as they would be notified that you have refused to leave a property when asked and you are armed.
There was recent changes made to carry laws regarding displaying a weapon when you are threatened vs. brandishing but I dont remember the exact codes or wording and am entirely too lazy to look it up right now but its my opinion that if you have your CCW you have an element of surprise and shouldnt display that element unless you need to use force...
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<--this smiley just gave up the element of surprise, the best element you have when you conceal carry...