This is a discussion on Brandishing?? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Munch
I am certainly not an expert, but from what I have been taught concealed means just that, concealed. If someone can ...
January 14th, 2010 02:57 PM
In Michigan you can openly carry, conceal carry and anything in between. Legally speaking, it doesn't matter what someones feelings on the matter are as we have pre-emption laws in this state that make any law or ordinace stricter than state law unenforcable. If a manager of some store doesn't like it he can ask you to leave, if you don't, you THEN are tresspassing. Even with signs posted "no guns", they have to ask you to leave and you have to refuse to be charged with tresspassing. If you shirt rides up and someone sees your heater, don't freak out, just pull your shirt down and move on. Leave the sheeple to thier own problems. That's with a CPL. W/O a cpl, you can open carry almost anywhere without a CPL.
Originally Posted by Munch
January 14th, 2010 03:20 PM
Well, darn-it anyway’. Kahrdoor was kind enough to point us all in the right direction, but apparently that wasn’t good enough. So, as an acknowledgement to his research, here it is.
13-421. Justification; defensive display of a firearm; definition
A. The defensive display of a firearm by a person against another is justified when and to the extent a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
B. This section does not apply to a person who:
1. Intentionally provokes another person to use or attempt to use unlawful physical force.
2. Uses a firearm during the commission of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706 or violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03.
C. This section does not require the defensive display of a firearm before the use of physical force or the threat of physical force by a person who is otherwise justified in the use or threatened use of physical force.
D. For the purposes of this section, "defensive display of a firearm" includes:
1. Verbally informing another person that the person possesses or has available a firearm.
2. Exposing or displaying a firearm in a manner that a reasonable person would understand was meant to protect the person against another's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force.
3. Placing the person's hand on a firearm while the firearm is contained in a pocket, purse or other means of containment or transport.
My only concern is that some in Arizona may end up mimicking 'Marshall Dillon' and abuse the ‘hand on a firearm’ clause, and over commit themselves. Some of these BG’s simply can’t resist a dare.
Last edited by Saber; January 14th, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
January 14th, 2010 07:23 PM
Just printing or someone seeing your concealed weapon is not brandishing in WA St. However, it also depends on how viewing that weapon is perceived.
RCW 9.41.270(1) reads:"....it shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm....(other weapons)....in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."
I was warned by instructor, range personnel (who deal with the cops who practice there), and Dave Workman's "WA St.'s Gun Rights and Responsibilities" that 'anyone' can claim to have felt threatened just by seeing it. And any cop can choose to accept that and arrest you and let the court sort it out. And it happens.
At that point it is up to the magistrate or (unlikely) a jury to decide the issue. Ridiculous? Yes. But it all depends on the perceptions of the 'other side' and who believes who. If there were others in the area at the time, then they could speak in your defense but there are some pretty dramatic anti-gun people here in western WA.
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
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