Was the law broken?
This is a discussion on Was the law broken? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would have to guess that both sides are lying, but that is just my gut feeling.
Brady, also an African American, says he feels ...
January 14th, 2010 12:31 PM
I would have to guess that both sides are lying, but that is just my gut feeling.
This just made me stop caring about his cause. I'm all for standing up for fellow gun owners, but I cannot stand when people use the race card. (Regardless of what race he/she is.)
Brady, also an African American, says he feels he was unfairly profiled in the incident.
January 14th, 2010 01:11 PM
My head is spinning from all the stupidity. Hang on, let me get this straight...he agrees to leave and then the clerk just pulls a gun on him???
"Then he was like "F" you! And I was like, "F" you back! And he was like just get the "F" out of my G, D store! And I was like, I don't have a problem with that and before I knew it he came from behind the counter with a very large handgun," Brady said.
Brady says to defuse the situation, he let Mostafa know he had a licensed gun as well.
Brady says while he made a motion to open his jacket, there was no way Mostafa could've seen the gun.
He says after Mostafa called the police, he decided at first to wait there and give police his version of the story when they arrived.
Instead, Brady says he left because he feared he might be trespassing.
...the gun just suddenly came out of nowhere? So either his SA was up his butt, or else his back was turned, he was leaving, and THAT'S when the clerk decides to pull a gun? Really???
...he tried to diffuse the situation by countering that he, too, had a gun? That's DE-escalation? In that situation, I'd be backing up, using my soothing "it's ok, we're not going to have a problem here" and getting ready to draw but NOT revealing that I had a firearm.
...He motions to open his jacket, but there's no way the other guy could have seen his gun? Why MOTION? What's the POINT? Either back up your threat or just back up and leave? Why a motion (and no follow-through) of something the other guy couldn't have seen?
...first he waits to tell cops his side, then he leaves because he's afraid of tresspassing? I would have waited in my car next to the property, for the police to arrive. If you leave, couldn't they assume you were fleeing, and therefore probably in the wrong? I don't know, I'm not a cop, but you tell me.
It seems like these guys were in a piddling contest. Oh, and they're clearly both giant idiots. I wonder what the video tape will show?
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructor
January 14th, 2010 01:54 PM
Back when I was a LEO, this would go down as the equivalent to a ‘hissy-fit’. An interview and review of the video, should help resolve who was actually the a-hole. In any event, this is a good example why permit holders typically go further out of their way to avoid confrontations. It’s certainly not uncommon for a lot of us to yield, even when we’re in the right. What’s that saying? “Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should”
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
January 14th, 2010 02:12 PM
At this point no one was arrested. I think that pretty much indicates that there was no easy determination that either broke the law.
Sounds like two guys each with an attitude, a bad day, and no thinking going on.
Store owners shouldn't be offending customers, and the customer should have a little consideration for the clerk if he lacked the time to check the lottery ticket at that moment.
Sounds to me like there was no intentional display by the customer, and there might have been appropriate display by the store owner with a legitimate fear for his safety-- and besides he was on his own property.
Mostly, 64 Zebra hit the nail on the head and there isn't more to add.
January 14th, 2010 06:29 PM
Sounds like a Urinary Elimination Contest.
Smack both of 'em upside the head and tell 'em to grow up.
"I pledge allegiance to the war banner of the united states of Totalitaria. And to the Republic, which no longer stands, several bankers, who are now god, indivisible, with Bernanke bucks and credit for all."
January 14th, 2010 07:29 PM
Coach needs to get his aggression out on the field and the other guy needs a course in customer service.
And they both need to grow up.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
NRA Life Member
January 14th, 2010 07:37 PM
I agree that the store person could have been charged when pulled a gun with no threat. Just because someone calls you a name or gives a more expressive opinion of them, doesn't call for pulling a gun.... even if they are trying to get them to leave. I dont' believe he actually pulled his gun because he saw one on the customer, I think he's trying to cover himself after the fact.
Originally Posted by reyno2ac
The store person only backed off after he realized, he might not be the ONLY one with a gun. Pure stupidity of the store person, who sounds like a pompus bully.
The customer doesn't have to stand there and 'take it" if someone is making comments like the store person was. ... but I'ld be asking to talk to his boss. IF he pulled a gun, I would have pulled my phone and had 911 recording / monitoring the conversation from that point... or my phone recording.
January 14th, 2010 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by gilraen
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
January 14th, 2010 09:42 PM
He said, she said. Determining who's story is credible is a task that must be done. They both may be embellishing.
Given the relationship of clerk/agitated customer I would tend to give the clerk the benefit of doubt. We must keep in mind the fairly frequent armed robbery of convince stores.
Most self defense law is written that you may defend yourself as long as long as you can articulate your fear of imminent injury or death at the hands of another person. It is less important if that threat is real or only perceived. (a good example is a BG with a toy gun- the toy itself is harmless, but the fear of the person it is pointed at is real)
Hence, I put my bet on the clerk being in the (slightly higher) legal ground.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
January 15th, 2010 06:21 AM
I'd have to wait for the tapes also. Two stories and of course neither one admits fault per say.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
January 15th, 2010 07:46 AM
"Brady says to defuse the situation, he let Mostafa know he had a licensed gun as well.
Brady says while he made a motion to open his jacket, there was no way Mostafa could've seen the gun."
How would that defuse anything. The store owner was rude and aggressive. He cursed and told you to leave. Store owner had already drawn his gun...
You leave to defuse the situation. Staying to argue your side is trespassing once you've been told to leave.
The People Think the Constitution Protects Their Rights;
Government See IT as an Obstacle to be Over-come.
January 15th, 2010 08:04 AM
you can't fix stupid....
The story doesn't make sense... Something bad had to go down there... I would have left just due to the rude clerk and bad service...
The stranger who sees my gun would be staring down the barrel after he threatened my life!
January 15th, 2010 09:44 AM
Dispite the insedent They both agreed to shake hands & apologize Move on
Sounds like nobody wanted to press the issue
A Native Floridian = RARE
IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
January 21st, 2010 11:01 AM
It wasn't a CRIME... but he could go after him in a CIVIL manor.....NOTE...He should have NEVER said anything about his position carrying a firearm unless asked by law enforcement. That would be why it is called CONCEALED carry, and not open carry!
January 21st, 2010 02:31 PM
Seems like a good example of why CCers should try to take the high road.
/public service message ;-)
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
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