Louisiana - No Carry Where Alcohol Served

This is a discussion on Louisiana - No Carry Where Alcohol Served within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You have to watch what Laws say. There are many on the books that can say different things about the same issue. When LA got ...

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Thread: Louisiana - No Carry Where Alcohol Served

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Gary Slider's Avatar
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    You have to watch what Laws say. There are many on the books that can say different things about the same issue. When LA got their CCW law they didin't change other laws. That is why there is confusion. But the law is very plain and states:
    A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
    B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

    It says any type of alcohol for consumption on the premises. That mean all places you can sit down and they will serve you any alcoholic drink. I have seen this same thing in other states laws. They have passed a CCW law and there are other laws on the books from Pre CCW law days that say similar things but are worded different.

    Just like open carry laws. States have them on the books but then they arrest you when you are open carrying because you caused a panic in public etc etc. I Believe from reading the law that you can't carry in a place that serves any alcohol by LA Law. That is what the person in charge of issuing permits in LA told me also. On Handgunlaw.us I have to report what the states are saying about their laws. I can't put my opinion down and as I believe the laws are and tell people it is OK. If I have any doubt I go with the more restrictive reading until it is proven different.
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  3. #17
    Member Array metallic's Avatar
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    My understanding has always been that I'm in the clear as long as I don't step foot into the bar area of the restaurant. I could be wrong, but that has also been my interpretation from the fairly vague laws on concealed carry in a "beverage outlet."

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slider View Post
    You have to watch what Laws say. There are many on the books that can say different things about the same issue. When LA got their CCW law they didin't change other laws. That is why there is confusion. But the law is very plain and states:
    A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
    B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

    It says any type of alcohol for consumption on the premises. That mean all places you can sit down and they will serve you any alcoholic drink. I have seen this same thing in other states laws. They have passed a CCW law and there are other laws on the books from Pre CCW law days that say similar things but are worded different.

    Just like open carry laws. States have them on the books but then they arrest you when you are open carrying because you caused a panic in public etc etc. I Believe from reading the law that you can't carry in a place that serves any alcohol by LA Law. That is what the person in charge of issuing permits in LA told me also. On Handgunlaw.us I have to report what the states are saying about their laws. I can't put my opinion down and as I believe the laws are and tell people it is OK. If I have any doubt I go with the more restrictive reading until it is proven different.

    It seems to me there is a healthy dose of ambiguity in this restaurant/alcohol issue. I'd guess it would take a courts opinion or legislative action to actually clear it all up. I don't want to be the test case, and with that ambiguity it is safest for any chl holder to be cautious regarding restaurants, and the LSP is going to offer the safest interpretaion to the public.

    I'm a big supporter of the LSP and know they do a great job, I've spoken to Sgt Reaves myself with some questions, he was very helpful and cooperative. I'm glad he's in that spot.

    FWIW a short time back the LSP posted on their website that effective immediately LA would no longer honor non-resident FLA permits, that policy didn't stay in effect long, I think that non-resident decision actually had to be handled through the legislature? We all can make an error in an interpretation.

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...permit-la.html
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    My understanding is that LA has always prohibited carry in places that sell alcohol for on premise consumption, which is what has been posted, not just the "bar" area of the restaurant.

    As far as I understand and have seen in LA you can be served alchol outside of the bar area, therefor the entire establishment is a no carry zone.

    TX and AR are different, but when I go to LA I can't go and eat in a restaurant that sells alcohol.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    That's the same junk we have disquinishing bars from restuarants, % of sales, etc.... and one reason they just took the whole thing out of CCW laws and put in "if the owner wants to prohibit it, he can put up a no CCW sign".... otherwise, it's allowed.

  7. #21
    New Member Array Mike1951's Avatar
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    While there may be conflicting laws in Louisiana, it is NOT prohibited by their concealed handgun laws.

    It is only prohibited where a Class A-General license is in effect. By law, those locations bar anyone under 18 from entering.

    There is no restriction for the Class A - Restuarant license. In short, a restuarant that serves alcohol and does not restrict admission under the age of 18, is legal to carry there.


    RS 40:1379.3
    N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

    (10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

    RS 26:71.1
    71.1. Class A permit; definitions
    The commissioner shall issue the following four types of Class A retail liquor permits:
    (1) Class A-General:
    (a) A Class A-General retail permit shall be issued only to a retail outlet where beverage alcohol is sold on the premises for consumption on the premises by paying customers. Such an establishment must be equipped with a permanent wet bar equipped with a non-movable sink and a backbar or similar equipment for public display and to inform the public of brands and flavors offered for sale.
    (b) A Class A-General retail establishment shall be staffed by a bartender whose primary duty is to open and/or prepare beverage alcohol products for consumption on the premises by paying customers, or prepared with an appropriate lid or cover on the container for take out service. Such an establishment must meet all state and local zoning requirements as set forth by the state and by parishes and municipalities where a Class A-General retail outlet is located.
    (c) Repealed by Acts 1995, No. 1016, 2.
    (d) A Class A-General retail permit shall be issued only to an establishment where the state law provides that no person under the age of eighteen years is allowed on the premises except as provided in R.S. 26:90(A)(8)(a).
    (e) Notwithstanding the provisions of Subparagraphs (a) through (d) of this Paragraph, the commissioner may issue a Class A-General liquor permit to any bona fide commercial film theater which had a Class A liquor permit on January 1, 1994.
    (f) Notwithstanding the provisions of Subparagraphs (a) through (e) of this Paragraph, the commissioner may issue a Class A-General retail permit to any retail establishment for consumption on or off the premises. Such establishment must meet all state and local zoning requirements as set forth by the state and by parishes and municipalities where the retail outlet is located. A Class A-General retail permit issued pursuant to the authority granted by this Subparagraph shall not be deemed or qualify as a prerequisite for the issuance of any other type license or permit issued by the state or any political subdivisions thereof.
    (g) The licensed premises of a Class A-General retail permit shall be able to accommodate a minimum of twenty-five patrons and contain no less than three hundred seventy-five square feet of public habitable floor area.
    (h) The commissioner shall promulgate rules regarding requirements related to the number and location of public restrooms to be used in conjunction with the licensed premises of each Class A-General retail permit.
    (i) Any Class A-General retail permit application submitted prior to September 1, 2001, shall not be required to meet the qualifications set forth in Subparagraph (g) of this Paragraph.
    (2) Class A-Restaurant:
    A Class A-Restaurant permit shall be issued only to a "restaurant establishment" as defined by R.S. 26:73(B) and issued to a facility in conjunction with a Class "R" restaurant permit under the provisions of R.S. 26:73.



    RS 26:90
    90. Acts prohibited on licensed premises; suspension or revocation of permits

    A. No person holding a retail dealer's permit and no agent, associate, employee, representative, or servant of any such person shall do or permit any of the following acts to be done on or about the licensed premises:

    (8)(a) Employ anyone under the age of eighteen in any capacity in an establishment where the sale of alcoholic beverages constitutes its main business unless the minor is a musician performing in a band on the premises under written contract with the permittee for a specified time period and is under the direct supervision of his parent or guardian during such time. If the sale of alcoholic beverages does not constitute the main business of the establishment, anyone under the age of eighteen may be employed as long as the minor's employment does not involve the sale, mixing, dispensing, or serving of alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.

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  8. #22
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    Well one of you is going to have to take one for the team and be the test case that works its way up to the Supreme Court.

  9. #23
    New Member Array Mike1951's Avatar
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    Somewhere I've got the code that specifies that restaurants are NOT alcoholic beverage outlets, which the original post referred to.
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  10. #24
    New Member Array Mike1951's Avatar
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    The following exception makes any reference to an "alcoholic beverage outlet" inapplicable to restaurants.

    RS 14:95.4
    95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

    A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

    B. For purposes of this Section, "alcoholic beverage outlet" means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are the primary purpose or are an incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

    C. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" licensed to sell firearms or containing an indoor shooting gallery shall be exempt from the provisions of this Section in those areas designated for the sale of firearms or the shooting gallery.

    D. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.

    E. The owner of the alcoholic beverage outlet shall post a sign, at or near the entrance, that states that by the fact of entering these premises a person shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

    Added by Acts 1983, No. 524, 1.
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  11. #25
    New Member Array Mike1951's Avatar
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    It has been pointed out to me on another forum that the "as used herein" provides different definitions for "alcoholic beverage outlet" in RS 14:95.4 D. & R.S. 14:95.5 B.

    A list of prohibited locations from the handbook published by the LSP Concealed Handgun Permit Unit follows. It does not include restaurants that serve alcohol for on premise consumption.

    I point out again that a Class A-General license bars admission to anyone under 18 and that the correct license for a restaurant is Class A-Restaurant.

    Prohibited Locations
    R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) states that no concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
    A law enforcement office, station, or building;
    A detention facility, prison, or jail;
    A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom;
    A polling place;
    A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision;
    The state capitol building;
    Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage;
    Any church, synagogue, mosque or similar place of worship;
    A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity;

    Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.


    Any school "firearm free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.
    The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.
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  12. #26
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    Sometimes I like Fl . Ok, it is true that it is forbidden to carry in bars, but I do not go to bars anyway.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array Gary Slider's Avatar
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    Many times states pass laws that overlap. When they do the courts look at the legislative intent. What was there intent when they passed 14:95.5? What it boils down to is the state has laws that can conflict. Until someone takes this case to the LA courts there will be conflict in the true meaning of the law. So someone in LA has to get arrested and fight it or someone in LA has to ask the AG for an official opinion on this issue.

    Right now the Unit that issues Permits/Licenses in LA to carry says carry in a place that serves any type of alcohol is prohibited. Be aware that if you are caught in a place that serves alcohol yo can be charged. Weather you win on not is up to the courts. So if you say yes you can by how you read the law then you must be prepared to face the good or bad consequences of your actions.

    It will cost you a small fortune to defend yourself unless you can get a RKBA Org to pay the legal bills. Handgunlaw.us will keep reporting that LA is a No Restaurant Carry state until the unit that issues permits/licenses changes their stance or there is a court case that makes the decision one way or the other.

    LRS 14:95.5 Possession of firearm beverage outlet

    Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet
    A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
    B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Yep, kinda sucks doesn't it...

    14:95.5 uses a different definition for "alcoholic beverage outlet" than 14:95.4, and overlaps 40:1379.3 (N) with the effect that the wording in the prohibited places section is useless. This is a classic example of bad law-making, with the result being a trap for law-abiding citizens to fall into, with very dire consequences.

    The way to fix this is to start calling and emailing your state reps and demand that they introduce a bill to strike the antiquated 14:95.5 from the books. We need to make it clear that this law is hurting the restaurant industry through lost business and placing thousands of unwitting citizens into a confusing labyrinth of overlapping and conflicting laws.
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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