January 15th, 2010 01:04 PM
Areas of Emergency and Riot
5. Areas of Emergency and Riot
It is also a misdemeanor under North Carolina law for a person to transport or
possess, off his or her own premises, a dangerous weapon in an area during a declared
state of emergency, or in the vicinity of a riot. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-288.7 A concealed
handgun permit does not allow a permittee to carry a weapon in these areas. N.C. Gen.
Stat. § 14-415.11(c)
All this stuff going on in Haiti got me thinking and stories I read about New Orleans but isn't this the reason we carry a gun to protect ourselves from criminals. We all know this is the time they will be out at full force looting.
OK as stated above this is the law for NC. So if I read this correctly if there is a state of emergency in NC I can not leave my home with a weapon. First of all if I know there is a riot going on I don't want to be there. But lets say a hurricane hits I run out of food and water or need medical aid and I go look for some and get stopped by leo or guardsmen I can get my weapon taken away and they would leave me to the mercy of criminals. I know leo have to deal wit hall kinds of crazy people. Like in New Orleans why do you want to shoot at people coming to rescue you. I also can see they don't want weapons in a shelter but I will be dammed if I will be out and about with out my gun. just some thoughts and if you have a similar law in your state
Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power.
-- Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author, in the LA Times 15 Oct 1992
January 15th, 2010 01:17 PM
As per letter of your states cited law you have two choices:
1) Stay home as to be upon your "own premises".
2) Flee the area of emergency in the immediate and/or the state overall until the "declared state of emergency" has been lifted, which as we know from domestic incidents may well be some time on the order of days and even weeks after the actual incident of issue has passed.
Yet another reason to have a bug out bag per family member prepped AND to keep at home on tap survival stores.
If you were to leave your home even to just go up the street to buy supplied while armed as during a declared state of emergency...You would be doing so as a criminal, regardless of your state issued carry permit.
Personally I have already made my mind up that if such an incident were to occur in my area as with major infrastructure damage and security issue, I am packing my family up that day/moment and we are leaving to higher and safer distant ground. Period.
And I'm taking my arms as well as whatever ammo I can afford space & time to pack with me.
All else is insured and/or relatively easily can be replaced.
Me and we breathing and not getting wet by water or blood is priority one.
P.S. - Concealed means 'concealed', as in nobody knows nor finds out to become aware. Which may in an emergency sit such as Haiti/Katrina mean having developed and maintained as prior to the incident a good amount of skill at concealed carry AND having physical conditioning as to your best degree of functional ability. That is not the time to be thinking to do push up and working on building up of strength to carry stuff and endurance so as to be able to out run predators, or the well meaning but in the immediate most often indiscriminate acting/reacting ground force law enforcement agents.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 15th, 2010 01:19 PM
The only answer that I can think of is that you might want to prepare some emergency food and water storage. I wouldn’t want to leave my home in the event of a riot/natural disaster. There are way too many idiots out looking for trouble. It is best to be prepared with a significant amount of water, food, fuel, medical supplies, etc... so that you don’t have to leave.
Besides, if I leave my home, then who will protect my family and my stockpiled food if the riot comes to us?
Only my opinion...
"Surely the preservation and enjoyment of the freedoms vouchsafed to us by the Constitution of the United States will require eternal vigilance even to the guarding of it with our lives. We must ever keep faith with our founding fathers by keeping faith with our Constitution."
January 15th, 2010 01:21 PM
Ahh, the power of the "Gray Man"... practice it.
With that said, I'm not so sure I'd be leaving my homestead if riots and such are going on in the area. But, you got to do what you got to do.
January 15th, 2010 01:39 PM
I just came across this law not to long ago my cc instructor never talked about it. The way the law is written you would have to leave with your weapon before the state of emergency once they declare it and you pack to leave you would be wrong to have your weapon on you. I will say right now I would have my gun with me if I had to leave. What really sucks is if something happens like in Haiti an earth quake, tornado there is no warning I understand being prepared but if they call a state wide emergency you could be breaking the law even if you are not in the affected area. Any way just wanted to post to keep people informed not sure how many people know about these type of laws like i said i just came across it.
Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power.
-- Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author, in the LA Times 15 Oct 1992
January 15th, 2010 02:20 PM
Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006
42 USC Sec. 5207
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans Chief of Police Eddie Compass ordered police and National Guard units to confiscate firearms from citizens who remained in the area.
The National Rifle Association and Second Amendment Foundation filed a lawsuit against the city of New Orleans to place an emergency injunction forbidding such seizures from continuing. A temporary restraining order was granted September 23, 2005.
The Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 (H.R.5013, S.2599) was a bill introduced March 28, 2006 by Republican Congressman Bobby Jindal in the House and on April 7, 2006 by Republican Senator David Vitter in the Senate. On August 4, 2006, it was referred to committee.
On July 12, 2006 Senator Vitter proposed Senate Amendment 4615 (the Vitter Amendment) to Department Of Homeland Security Appropriations Act, 2007 (H.R. 5441), to prohibit the confiscation of a firearm during an emergency or major disaster if the possession of such firearm is not prohibited under Federal or State law. The proposed amendment was subsequently modified to contain the provisions of the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006. However, the temporary surrender of a firearm could be required "as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation".
On July 13, 2006, the Vitter Amendment passed the United States Senate 84 to 16. It was retained by the conference committee. President George W. Bush signed the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act on September 30, 2006 and it became Public Law 109-295.
Federal Law would trumpt State Law in an area that has been declared a Federal Disaster Area or Federal Emergency.
TITLE 42 - THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
CHAPTER 68 - DISASTER RELIEF
SUBCHAPTER V - MISCELLANEOUS
Sec. 5207. Firearms policies
(a) Prohibition on confiscation of firearms
No officer or employee of the United States (including any member of the uniformed services), or person operating pursuant to or under color of Federal law, or receiving Federal funds, or under control of any Federal official, or providing services to such an officer, employee, or other person, while acting in support of relief from a major disaster or emergency, may –
(1) temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under Federal, State, or local law, other than for forfeiture in compliance with Federal law or as evidence in a criminal investigation;
(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by Federal, State, or local law;
(3) prohibit possession of any firearm, or promulgate any rule, regulation, or order prohibiting possession of any firearm, in any place or by any person where such possession is not otherwise prohibited by Federal, State, or local law; or
(4) prohibit the carrying of firearms by any person otherwise authorized to carry firearms under Federal, State, or local law, solely because such person is operating under the direction, control, or supervision of a Federal agency in support of relief from the major disaster or emergency.
Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit any person in subsection (a) from requiring the temporary surrender of a firearm as a condition for entry into any mode of transportation used for rescue or evacuation during a major disaster or emergency, provided that such temporarily surrendered firearm is returned at the completion of such rescue or evacuation.
(c) Private rights of action
(1) In general
Any individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may seek relief in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress against any person who subjects such individual, or causes such individual to be subjected, to the deprivation of any of the rights, privileges, or immunities secured by this section.
In addition to any existing remedy in law or equity, under any law, an individual aggrieved by the seizure or confiscation of a firearm in violation of this section may bring an action for return of such firearm in the United States district court in the district in which that individual resides or in which such firearm may be found.
(3) Attorney fees
In any action or proceeding to enforce this section, the court shall award the prevailing party, other than the United States, a reasonable attorney's fee as part of the costs.
A State Governor can declare a State Disaster/Emergency and State law would apply until or if a Federal declaration were made. This is often the case of a localized event such as a tornado.
In the aftermath of the 2007 Greensburg, KS tornado, citizens were forced to evacuate the town even though Martial Law had not been declared and guns were confiscated from occupied homes.
Greensburg Gun Confiscations
Kansas House Bill No. 2811 passed during the 2008 State Legislative session.
Patricia A. Stoneking
April 6, 2008
I would like to start this report by noting that I have personally spoke with several sources who were directly involved in the incidents that I am about to report that took place in Greensburg, KS in the aftermath of the horrible CAT 5 tornado that ravaged and destroyed that town. I will not be divulging their names in this article as they have requested I not do so.
The first thing I would like for everyone to acknowledge is that the residents of Greensburg were forced to evacuate and that, in and of itself, was an illegal action as martial law had not been declared. There were many people who wanted to stay and they were threatened with arrest and forcible removal if they did not leave as ordered. The tornado happened at 9:46pm on Friday evening, May 4, 2007 and they were forced to leave within a couple hours of it, being given no time to collect themselves or assess the damages or even try to pick up anything such as guns and valuables. Ed Klummp, Police Chiefs Association, testified at the House committee hearing with a position opposing The Emergency Powers Act and said the evacuations were so they could search for bodies and shut off gas and power and that the evacuation was for the safety of the residents. I have been told by a reliable source that the electricity was shut off prior to the tornado striking and the gas was shut off within a few hours after. It would seem that the evacuation was not necessary in light of that information. Perhaps the position should have been that those who want to leave be provided a way to do so and those who wish to stay be allowed to stay.
This town was locked down tight for several days and no one was allowed in or out. The only people in that town during this time were Sheriffs Officers, Kansas Highway Patrol Officers, ATF, FEMA, National Guard, Police Officers from surrounding areas and some volunteers from Ft. Riley, generally speaking, government officials. Authorities claim no one else was there or could have gotten in or out. Interestingly enough, I have been told repeatedly by all sources that the media was allowed to roam freely without escorts through Greensburg. Shall we ask why residents were not allowed to stay on their own property but media was allowed unfettered access?
Many guns and other valuables such as jewelry have gone permanently missing and have never been recovered. There were some houses that were not destroyed and were in tact and habitable. Those folks did not want to leave but were forced to do so. When they returned they found their houses had been broken in to and all of their guns missing. One gentleman reports that when he went to claim his guns, taken from his secure home, they were returned to him in damaged condition. They were not damaged by the tornado. They were locked up in his home and illegally confiscated. So how do we suppose that damage occurred?
Guns and ammunition that were collected were taken to a trailer and an ATF agent manned the trailer. When people first came to collect their guns they were asked for proof of ownership such as receipts and serial number lists and they had to fill out a 4473 and get a NICS approval before they could claim their guns. No one had paperwork, receipts, or lists of serial numbers because it had all blown away. Later into the process they quit demanding these items and asked only for a list with make, model and description of the firearm. In one case, in the collection trailer, a gun case was claimed by one man who had a very nice trap shotgun in it and when he opened the undamaged and closed case, he found not his nice BT99 but another damaged gun that did not belong to him. That $1500.00 BT99 has never turned up. One comment made by all sources is that many “nice” guns were never recovered. Every source has reported that little to no care was taken with any of the firearms retrieved and taken into protective custody and they were not catalogued in any fashion. One resident said “they were just thrown in there in piles”.
One family, whose house was not damaged, reported that officers were going to remove them at gun point when they refused to leave their property and a gun fight was only averted when a KBI agent stepped in front of the other officers and pleaded with them to consider what they were doing. Those residents had taken up their shotguns and were not going to leave. We can only say thank heavens for that KBI officer who had the sense to realize what pressing these people at gun point would mean.
As I talked to these residents of Greensburg the accounts of their personal experiences kept flowing and they all had certain things in common. Their rights were violated, guns were confiscated illegally and they were forced to leave their homes illegally. When government agents came to their property they did not ask them if they were okay or needed help. They were there to forcibly remove them and confiscate their property. Many of them expressed fear of reprisal should they go public. Do they have the names of the officials who they believe acted illegally and inappropriately? In many cases, the answer is yes. Did all officials act illegally and inappropriately? NO. Many were very helpful and had great concern for the well being of the residents and were there to assist them with the best of intentions.
The people in Greensburg are a close, tight knit community, everyone knows everyone kind of place. They were very resentful of government coming in and telling them what they had to do. They would have preferred to stay and help each other locate valuables and guns and not leave their property. Several residents have reported that FEMA did more harm than good and would not even cooperate with local law enforcement. Residents of the town who were firefighters and trained in rescue operations wanted to stay and help their neighbors and friends and were told they could not.
The many stories that have been shared with me are too lengthy to include in this report. I just pose these questions. If there was even one act of misconduct or illegal activity by any governmental official are we to stand by idly and allow it without complaint? Should those who broke the law be allowed to continue to “serve” as law enforcement officials without question? Should the residents of Greensburg have to fear reprisal if they report and file complaints about what happened to them? Should Kansas and its legislative body do nothing to see to it that this never happens again?
I am turning over all of the information I have obtained to the NRA complete with names and numbers of those residents which I have spoke with. I am also going to turn the information over to some members of the Kansas House and Senate. I would urge KSRA members to contact their legislators and demand that a full investigation be conducted in to the events that took place in Greensburg. HB 2811, The Emergency Powers Act is a bill designed to prevent this exact kind of thing from happening and provide a remedy if it does (see that article). At the time of this publication that bill is in the Senate Federal and State Affairs Committee. Rise up Kansas! Let your voice be heard! Don’t let your town be next!!
Target Master Shooting Academy, LLC
Professional Firearms training
NRA Certified Training Counselor
KS Certified CCH Instructor
KSRA Board Member
HOUSE BILL No. 2811
Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Kansas:
(a) No officer or employee of the state or any political subdivision thereof, member of the Kansas national guard in the service of the state, or any person operating pursuant to or under color of state law, receiving state funds, under control of any official of the state or political subdivision thereof, or providing services to such officer, employee or other person, while acting during a declared official state of emergency, may:
(1) Temporarily or permanently seize, or authorize seizure of, any firearm the possession of which is not prohibited under state law, other than as evidence in a criminal investigation; or
(2) require registration of any firearm for which registration is not required by state law.
(b) Any individual aggrieved by a violation of this section may seek in the courts of this state relief in an action at law or in equity or other proper proceeding for redress against any person who subjects such in- dividual, or causes such individual to be subjected, to the deprivation of any of the rights, privileges or immunities provided by this section.
(c) In addition to any other remedy at law or in equity, an individual aggrieved by the seizure or confiscation of a firearm in violation of this section may bring an action for return of such firearm in the district court of the county in which that individual resides or in which such firearm is located. In any action or proceeding to enforce this section, the court shall award the prevailing party, other than the state or political subdi- vision thereof, reasonable attorneys’ fees.
(d) ‘‘Seize’’ shall mean the act of forcible dispossessing an owner of property under actual or apparent authority of law......
January 15th, 2010 02:27 PM
Thanks for sharing. That just seems ludicrous to me. State of Emergency is when we need our weapons the most. I will go check my states laws for something like that as soon as I get home.
January 15th, 2010 05:09 PM
Know your state laws, and do what you have to do.
Sounds like good advice to me.
Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
January 15th, 2010 08:17 PM
The letter of the law is one thing, the application is another. Where we live a hurricane related 'state of emergency' is not uncommon. Many of us have rental property or businesses that need our attention as soon as it is possible to go out after the storm. I know of no case where an officer gave a legally armed citizen going about his lawful business a hard time.
"If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan
January 15th, 2010 08:34 PM
January 15th, 2010 09:05 PM
This kind of crap really pisses the heck out of me.
Why in the world would the "authorities" go door to door and confiscate folks' guns in an emergency situation?
So they can make people feel so unsafe that it will be easier to round them up and force them into FEMA camps under the guise of "it's for your own safety".
This is just plain wrong.
It's easy for all of us to say we won't cooperate. But when the time comes, are we really ready, willing, and able to put up a resistance?
This country is getting more messed up every day.
It makes me want to move way far out into the woods where nobody can mess with me.
God help us.
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill
January 15th, 2010 09:29 PM
Well you don't always have a choice about whether to leave your house or not; but I'd lean towards wanting to stay if my house isn't going to burn or flood. Bug out is often going to be a dangerous option if you live inside the beltway, as I do. A month of provisions and a few thousand rounds of ammunition, some good rifles and a couple of neighbors I'm friendly with who have similar assets and a similar mindset and I think we can stick most temporary Black Swans likely to hit Charlotte. Not something I worry about a lot but its hard not to think about it when you see what happens in some places. People get downright irate when they have no water to drink.
January 15th, 2010 09:32 PM
During the LA riots, the stores were OK until the police disarmed the shopkeepers. Then they burned.
The government agencies want a monopoly on power and use of force so they can be "safe" in these areas. Politicians directing the efforts are often anti-gun. So, they want to round up the firearms.
What they SHOULD do is leave alone the people who are just defending their own property and concentrate on the looters, who should be shot on sight. Also, issue a curfew with the same consequences. If you do that, you don't have some of the problems we saw in New Orleans.
An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay
January 15th, 2010 09:42 PM
I would stay in my home and feel safe staying on Guard 24/7 (i am a light sleeper) i have a PA LTCF so i am good to carry during state of emergency to gather supplies and make sure no one robs me of my supplies and food replenishes.
January 15th, 2010 10:52 PM
Forget gathering supplies. There aren't any. There is almost no practical storage of any volume anywhere anymore - other than raw materials and unfinished products in still relatively small amounts in granaries, mills, distribution centers and production plants. Inventory turns over in a week or so, and arrives just in time ... very little is warehoused anywhere.
As soon as weather calls for ice every store here is out of bread and milk in an afternoon.
Our entire society runs on just-in-time inventory of just about everything. If primary logistics systems go off the rails for 3 days forget it you are on your own.
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