I'm dissappointed in Fl.

This is a discussion on I'm dissappointed in Fl. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sounds to me like you should ask for your money back. No, police as the instructor is not the answer as many of them are ...

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Thread: I'm dissappointed in Fl.

  1. #31
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like you should ask for your money back. No, police as the instructor is not the answer as many of them are not firearm experts. There are various skill levels in all training. Self education is the answer. That is why many of us are forum members and sort the good stuff from the bad. Florida and federal laws are accessible on line with a bit of work. There are many courses available to further your firearm education.
    I feel certain the gun grabbers just love to read about how poorly trained some of us permit holders are.
    Stay safe,
    oldogy
    Government is out of control
    "If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Sen Orrin G. Hatch

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  3. #32
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    My take on this: I am philosophically inclined towards the fact that gun ownership and carry is a right, not to be infringed. So I do not think the state has any business requiring training. The interesting thing is, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter. That is, if you do a statistical analysis on states that require no training for a license vs. the ones that do, I believe if you check you will find NO significant difference between them on the issue of licensed people doing stupid things with a gun. This needs checking, but I have looked around a lot and I have found NOTHING to contradict this. Perhaps we could get John Lott to do this?
    One complicating factor is that some stupid things that are done with guns never come to police attention (or news), so there will always be some room for argument on this issue.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    so whats the verdict...you think the government should be more involved in gun ownership than they already are?...

    its the responsibility of the gun owner to know the rules and follow them, use good judgment and fly right...put more responsibilty n the government and youll be turning your guns in shortly...

    just spend some time reading some of the posts here and rethink your position...theres plenty of blood thirsty gun toters here and i'm sure if the media got hold of some of those posts and decided to use them it would do as much damage as the description of unworthy cwl holders as you described...

    maybe everyone needs to think a little harde before they ask the government to get more involved...

    and maybe the reason you dont see more problems than you do with irresponsible gun owners than you do is because regardless of what your perception is of people you dont believe should be carrying...you may not be entirely right...

  5. #34
    Member Array GTOGuy's Avatar
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    This is a great thread with many highly charged posts. We must remember that no Amendendment is absolute; there are always restrictions or limitations. Ohio requires twelve hours of certified training by either an NRA instructor or by the OH Peace Officers Organization. The paperwork is straightforward once the class is passed. Restrictions to a CHL? We have a few, including no felony convictions, no assults, no drug issues and not under a restraining order to name most of them. Are they reasonable? YES!

    These restrictions, and probably the same for most other states, are a result of undereducated/untrained people doing stupid things. An anology would be the same as someone yelling FIRE in a crowded movie house. Removing all restrictions would lead to more violence.

    Obviously a CHL or CCW is an individual's responsibilty, but your instructor did not help you at all. However, we all know that certain members of society will take advantage of this situation, and that is why I legally carry.
    Guns: Glock 22, 23, 26, 27, 29, 30 & 36
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  6. #35
    Senior Member Array Freedom Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTOGuy View Post
    This is a great thread with many highly charged posts. We must remember that no Amendendment is absolute; there are always restrictions or limitations. Ohio requires twelve hours of certified training by either an NRA instructor or by the OH Peace Officers Organization. The paperwork is straightforward once the class is passed. Restrictions to a CHL? We have a few, including no felony convictions, no assults, no drug issues and not under a restraining order to name most of them. Are they reasonable? YES!

    These restrictions, and probably the same for most other states, are a result of undereducated/untrained people doing stupid things. An anology would be the same as someone yelling FIRE in a crowded movie house. Removing all restrictions would lead to more violence.

    Obviously a CHL or CCW is an individual's responsibilty, but your instructor did not help you at all. However, we all know that certain members of society will take advantage of this situation, and that is why I legally carry.
    As mentioned above, I don't think the state (any state) has any business requiring training. But if you think that training matters, look at it from the point of view of Ohio and Indiana. Indiana IIRC requires no training for their license, while Ohio requires some. Do you think that per capita, Indiana has more incidents of people with licenses doing stupid things with a gun than Ohio does? Maybe if we could get an answer to this question we could pretty much settle it.
    Anti-gunners seem to believe that if we just pass enough laws, we can have utopia. Unfortunately, utopia is NOT one of our choices.

  7. #36
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    I love Florida, I have their CCW and carry there on vacation. I think the class requirement is ridiculous. You have a natural right to bear (carry) arms. You don't need a class to speak, nor one to vote. Responsibility rests with you, not the state.

    By giving in to I'm a good shot but the other guy is an idiot mentality you're propping up the nanny state. It's one step away from guns are bad and only people "professional enough to carry" are qualified.

    I also have a PA CCW, no test required. The only blood running in the streets is from gangbangers. CCW not an issue.

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array Hot Wing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    I love fl. Myself ;-) PS You will come to like the Gunshine State !!
    h/d
    Well said born and breed

  9. #38
    Member Array MSGTTBAR's Avatar
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    In Florida, an honorable DD214 substitutes for the training requirement.
    The attitudes reflected here by some of you: "My training is better than yours, so you don't really deserve to carry concealed" , is carried over to some States not honoring other States licenses because of different licensing requirements.
    'Keep and Bear' is a right not to be taken lightly, but it is the individuals responsibility to acquire the knowledge and skills to bear arms effectively and safely.
    I can leave home and travel to Texas to visit my kids and be legal in every State along the way. If I want to go to Nevada, though, that State has changed their law such that they no longer respect Florida's license. No reason, but I suspect different training requirements play a hand.
    What if they started playing the same games with Driver Licenses. Just a thought.
    Life is too short to be serious!

  10. #39
    Member Array GTOGuy's Avatar
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    Doc: Your opinion is yours and you are welcome to it. But I seriously doubt that many people would be comfortable knowing that anyone could CCW without some training and demonstration of competency. That position of no restrictions could also be applied to other dangerous sitiuations. Perhaps the experiences of the IN people are better than those in OH.
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  11. #40
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTOGuy View Post
    Doc: Your opinion is yours and you are welcome to it. But I seriously doubt that many people would be comfortable knowing that anyone could CCW without some training and demonstration of competency. That position of no restrictions could also be applied to other dangerous sitiuations. Perhaps the experiences of the IN people are better than those in OH.
    But there are states that dont require it, like IN & WA. Before saying that, you should see what the crime stats are like and what kind of problems, if any, there have been with CCers.

    Like you said...maybe things are better in IN than OH...let's see.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  12. #41
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    If taking a class makes you an expert, 16yr. old kids would be great drivers.

    Passing gets you a license, now the real learning begins.

    Good post.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTOGuy View Post
    Doc: Your opinion is yours and you are welcome to it. But I seriously doubt that many people would be comfortable knowing that anyone could CCW without some training and demonstration of competency. That position of no restrictions could also be applied to other dangerous sitiuations. Perhaps the experiences of the IN people are better than those in OH.
    It's a nice opinion, but you can't support that contention with any factual evidence - especially from states like Alaska and Vermont.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #43
    Member Array GTOGuy's Avatar
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    As was noted earlier, most incidents involving CCW are not reported, and in OH they are not seperated from other cases. It is just common sense to say that education and competency makes one better than not having either. Would you really want Joe Wannabe designing a building or bridge? Of course not. And you really don't want someone with a mental illness, addicted to controlled substances or unable to safely handle a pistol with a CCW either.
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  15. #44
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTOGuy View Post
    Doc: Your opinion is yours and you are welcome to it. But I seriously doubt that many people would be comfortable knowing that anyone could CCW without some training and demonstration of competency. That position of no restrictions could also be applied to other dangerous sitiuations. Perhaps the experiences of the IN people are better than those in OH.
    In the old days, that training was performed by the parents.

    (BTW, GA requires no training to get a permit)

  16. #45
    Member Array walrusjax's Avatar
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    After reading restrictions in other states on handgunlaw.us, I am GLAD that I live in Florida.

    BTW, my class was 3 1/2 hrs long. The instructor told us after an hour that he had given everything required to pass us, but that it was important for us to understand the laws and responsibilities. He went through many laws and scenarios so that we understood what we were getting ourselves into. I think that if you want further training (I do), you need to take a class at a local range.
    I am the Walrus...Goo Goo Goo Joob

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” –Benjamin Franklin

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