Does your permit make you "A cut above"?

This is a discussion on Does your permit make you "A cut above"? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare Carry OK, I dont get that impression from his post at all. He's expressing doubt and concern over 'some' gun owners' ...

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Thread: Does your permit make you "A cut above"?

  1. #16
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Carry OK, I dont get that impression from his post at all. He's expressing doubt and concern over 'some' gun owners' attitudes.

    I get those same feelings about a few issues....it stems from the fact that such people endanger our gun rights and can make us (CCers) look bad as a group. Not to mention just being plain dangerous.
    I understand your point. However, in the post, the OP used multiple carricature (sp?) adjectives. 'Uber trained caped avenger, elite subset, certified good guy, Walter Mitty, iirc. That to my mind evokes the impression that I honestly expressed. I could of course be wrong. But, we all are, once or twice in our lifetimes, right?
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    From my perspective as a dumb grunt working the streets is that when I do encounter some one with a valid CCW (not required here to carry) I know that at the very least that they aren't a felon, and chose to take a class and submit to a background check - therefore are more likely to be "on my side". This does not mean I let my guard down. So in my opinion being a CCW holder does put you a "cut above" until shown otherwise.

    I think its fairly comparable to having a CDL as was posted by another member on the thread that spawned this one. Generally speaking CCW'ers much like CDL'ers have been through more training, have more "miles" under their belt, and take the added responsibility more seriously.

    To be quite honest, I agree with TREO on one point - that is that you should not need a CCW to carry a concealed weapon. Until the laws change, it is what it is.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    The posession of lethal force (CHP or not) SHOULD inherrantly necessitate a greater degree of personal responsibility. A higher standard of care, caution, respect, and maturity to de-escalate and walk away.
    These are my feelings on parenthood, but we cant infringe on peoples' right to restrict that, can we? And we sure cant make them better parents.

    We really cant assume it about CC holders. either. As you said, we 'should' be able to, but the reality is that pretty much anyone without a felony record can get a permit. (or specific diagnosed mental condition....that one has loads of holes in it).

    My hope is that when people do go out of their way to get a permit, that they do indeed take those responsibilities seriously...just like I hope they do about parenthood.

    But that's why I have my signature line....there are risks in freedom...and it's up to us "personally" to be responsible, not for the govt to bind us with laws to 'protect us.'
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #19
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Clarification

    you may not feel qualified to carry a weapon, forget the legality, as you were 'grandfathered in' with only a DD214, but no formal training. If you did indeed receive such, you did not make that clear. If not, that can be resolved.
    I took a class W/ my wife so I did recieve the colorado legal minimum of training. I also was required to pass a CBI background check just like anyone who buys a gun, gets a merchant guard license or works W/ children in Colorado is required to.

    I also have several credit hours worth of theraputic crisis intervention training, theraputic crisis management training, conflict resolution training, merchant guard legallities of use of force training, stress inoculation training, MOUT training and a couple of years or so of real world experience so I don't think my training is in the least inadequate. I was merely pointing out the lax requirements to obtain a permit in Colorado.

    I'm more concerned W/ the attitude I find amoung several posters here that continually seek to aggrandize their status as permit holders.

    As to the intent of the poster from the original thread I won't speculate. If he feels that I am taking his comment out of context he is welcome to join the discussion and clarify his position.

  6. #20
    Member Array Bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Although running away, yelling, and calling 911 are not bad options with regard to self-defense, my permit allows me an 'extra' option that gives me some 'additonal' peace of mind as well as a higher sense of responsibility that keeps me focused..
    VERY WELL SAID.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    To me, the permit itself means nothing. The permit does not change who I am, what I am capable of or what I believe. It is simply legal documentation, like my drivers lisence. Wether we are a cut above the rest or not depends on a whole lot of other things. I would venture to say that the majority of people here on DC ARE a cut above the rest. Not because we have permits, or even carry guns, but by the virtue that we are here, means that we take the responsibility that comes from carrying a deadly weapon seriously, and are at least attempting to educate ourselves, increase our awareness, and train to make ourselves better. Not better than others, but better than we were, attempting to be the best that we can.

    The permit means nothing. What it tends to indicate about the person is what is significant.
    Walk softly ...

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry ok View Post
    I understand your point. However, in the post, the OP used multiple carricature (sp?) adjectives. 'Uber trained elite subset,'caped avenger, 'certified good guy' 'Walter Mitty', iirc. That to my mind evokes the impression that I honestly expressed. I could of course be wrong. But, we all are, once or twice in our lifetimes, right?
    Yes, I see your point, but when I come to some of these forums, even this one, I am shocked at just how many replies come from people who sound just like those descriptions. The whole 'blow 'em away' mentality, 'kill em all and let God sort 'em out,' etc. Very holier than thou. People considering drawing on homeless people when you can get out of dodge just as easily...just because your state 'allows it' is just ridiculous.

    I read it too much to disagree with him.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I took a class W/ my wife so I did recieve the colorado legal minimum of training. I also was required to pass a CBI background check just like anyone who buys a gun, gets a merchant guard license or works W/ children in Colorado is required to.

    I also have several credit hours worth of theraputic crisis intervention training, theraputic crisis management training, conflict resolution training, merchant guard legallities of use of force training, stress inoculation training, MOUT training and a couple of years or so of real world experience so I don't think my training is in the least inadequate. I was merely pointing out the lax requirements to obtain a permit in Colorado.

    I'm more concerned W/ the attitude I find amoung several posters here that continually seek to aggrandize their status as permit holders.

    As to the intent of the poster from the original thread I won't speculate. If he feels that I am taking his comment out of context he is welcome to join the discussion and clarify his position.
    clarification is a good thing. The OP you refer to, iirc, did just that in the other thread.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array ICTsnub's Avatar
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    Thank you, Treo

    I nearly replied to Sixto's thread, but didn't want to derail it. I also nearly started a new thread similar to this, but decided to wait and think about it first.

    I have, like many here, been the beneficiary of getting out of a ticket because I informed the officer even though it is not required. He then asked if my drivers license was valid, and told me if it was, I was off with a warning. He didn't assume the CHL was a good guy badge. I think he let me go because the first words out of my mouth informed him he did indeed have an armed traffic stop, and also because I admitted to my traffic offense, and only made the excuse of screwing up.

    As to the "sheepdog" reference, that word has never leapt off my fingers on this forum. I have no compulsion to protect any other than my own. I guess I would call myself a parent, or husband, though. The State of Kansas even calls the law that gave us shall issue The Personal and Family Protection Act. Don't really mind seeing people who don't arm themselves called sheep, as they are feed for the predators out there.

    If you beleive what you read on some forums, regular folk need to carry more guns than they have hands, 100 rounds of ammo, a couple knives, mace and a light/impact weapon. I think some of us let the Permit define who we are. In my 45 years, I have never been anywhere that made me ten reloads scared. I do feel light years safer with 5 rounds of .357, or 7 of .32acp, than I did two years ago before I had a permit.

    Thanks for the soapbox,
    Tom
    Last edited by ICTsnub; January 17th, 2010 at 03:20 PM. Reason: transposed words
    I'm not a lawyer or a LEO, just a pantload with a computer.

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I don't know how many people have really thought about it, but it was actually easier for me to get my non resident Florida carry permit than it was for me to get my drivers license. All I had to do for Florida was send them pictures, prints, and a copy of my hunting license. For my drivers license there was the vision test, the law test, and the driving tests. When I moved to Texas I had to show multiple ID's (used the FL permit as one) and pass a vision test.

    As far as background checks go, there are background checks and then there are background checks. I have passed multiple background checks for various law enforcement agencies, and private sector employers that do government contract work. But I had to explain to a former rookie of mine that it would be a waste of time for me to try to follow her to the FBI because I would not pass their background check. Different standards.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  12. #26
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    While we're being honest, my most significant past transgressions I listed on my HCP application. After a lapse of time, they are moot in consideration of issuance of my permit. I am in compliance with the law. That is good enough for the state of TN, and I'm happy with it.
    My HCP only enables me to be legally better prepared to defend myself when the SHTF, and it does not in any other regard make me (or indicate that I am) better than my fellow citizen.
    (Actually, it does indicate that I'm not a convicted felon).
    Retsupt said it better than I:
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Although running away, yelling, and calling 911 are not bad options with regard to self-defense, my permit allows me an 'extra' option that gives me some 'additonal' peace of mind as well as a higher sense of responsibility that keeps me focused..
    It is my duty to do the best that I can under my personal constraints and conditions to be a responsible, informed, and competent HC permitee, subject to my own aspirations, energy, and resources.
    Last edited by Pistology; January 17th, 2010 at 02:48 PM. Reason: Elucidation

  13. #27
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Yes, I see your point, but when I come to some of these forums, even this one, I am shocked at just how many replies come from people who sound just like those descriptions. The whole 'blow 'em away' mentality, 'kill em all and let God sort 'em out,' etc. Very holier than thou. People considering drawing on homeless people when you can get out of dodge just as easily...just because your state 'allows it' is just ridiculous.

    I read it too much to disagree with him.
    Another good point there 9MMare. I, myself have posted comments about 'perps' who have already committed heinous acts, as needing serious justice, even to death. I stand by those, as I believe in certain principles. I hope I have not gone to the extent of expressing hopes which would be plain unjust, though, as your point, I believe, is addressing.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  14. #28
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Does your permit make you "A cut above"?
    My permit is not a status symbol.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry ok View Post
    Another good point there 9MMare. I, myself have posted comments about 'perps' who have already committed heinous acts, as needing serious justice, even to death. I stand by those, as I believe in certain principles. I hope I have not gone to the extent of expressing hopes which would be plain unjust, though, as your point, I believe, is addressing.
    I concur. I have no love for criminals. I see their acts as completely those of 'choice.' And I see no reason why they shouldnt be the ones paying ALL the consequences for those choices, not the law-abiding.

    But once a gun is in play, even drawn, even made visible on a hip...the dynamics of any situation changes. And dont kid yourself (anyone)....you do not have control over those changes. And it becomes a risk to anyone in the vicinity. And do you really want to live with even one, even the bg's, death on your conscience, when you know you could have done otherwise?

    Just walk/run away. I think it's a matter of ego in 90% of the cases (just IMO).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    My permit is not a status symbol.
    I had mine dipped in gold and wear it on chain around my neck.

    Looks good with my grill.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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