Does your permit make you "A cut above"?

This is a discussion on Does your permit make you "A cut above"? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; And other delusions of granduer Recently, the following comment was made in this thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...counter-3.html A permit is somewhat like a badge, it should mean ...

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 100

Thread: Does your permit make you "A cut above"?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098

    Does your permit make you "A cut above"?

    And other delusions of granduer


    Recently, the following comment was made in this thread http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...counter-3.html


    A permit is somewhat like a badge, it should mean you are a cut above the rest, but it does not always work that way.
    This was my initial response

    No, it shouldn't and thinking that it should leads to the "sheepdog" myth and other delusions of grandeur. A permit should mean that you are an average law abiding citizens who has chosen to take a class, pay a fee and get a permit to conceal what he/she could carry openly with out all the hoops.
    I can not understand the mindset that our status as permit holders makes us some kind of elite subset of the average law abiding citizenry.

    In Colorado all I am required to do is present a DD214 or DD55A dated less than 10 years ago to the County Sheriff and I am deemed sufficiently trained to carry a concealed handgun. This doesn’t take into account that in my entire career I received no handgun training of any kind and never fired a hand gun once.

    To be perfectly clear I don’t think anyone should be required to get a permit to conceal period. I’m just trying to make the point that it’s ridiculous to claim that mere possession of a CHP makes me some type of uber trained caped avenger.

    Again, I believe that this type of thinking leads to the “sheep dog” myth which as I have stated several times before is (IMO) just a way for a certain type of permit holder to aggrandize themselves as a ‘defender of the flock”

    I carry a gun to defend myself and my family. It doesn’t make me super citizen it certainly doesn’t make me a “certified good guy”. In fact if not for the fact that Nebraska seals juvenile records when you turn 21 I would be a prohibited person.

    I’d like to hear some discussion on this; is your (generic) life so dull that you need to play Walter Mitty every time you pack?

    Does having a CHP make you “A cut above”? If so what about Vermont? The state recognizes that its citizens have a right to self defense and allows them to make their own decisions concerning it W/ out government interference. Are concealed carriers in Vermont a “cut above’?

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array BurgDog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    130
    The training I had in Colorado basically put the fear of the law into my head about ever using a gun on another person. More important then the gun part is learning about social dangers and why and how it is important to avoid them as much as possible. Knowing the law about self defense is something most people don't know very well.

    The people who go through the process ARE a bit of a cut above the rest of the crowd in general. The filter process of getting a permit weeds out the lazy and a large amount of people who have proven they can't be trusted (with a gun or anything else for that matter) because of recorded bad actions. I doesn't make me a sheepdog (and how I hate that term) and it doesn't make those that choose not to get a permit sheep.

  4. #3
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1,098
    The filter process of getting a permit weeds out the lazy and a large amount of people who have proven they can't be trusted
    I have a permit

  5. #4
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,954
    No, I already was a cut above!
    The carry permits just confirm that when it comes to carrying weapons I obey the law.
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    yes
    Posts
    1,644
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Does having a CHP make you “A cut above”?
    Nope. I am already a cut above. I am an intelligent, educated, hardworking, thinking, and voting person. I don't drink and drive and I don't attempt to murder police officers who stop me.

    Treo- I agree with your assessment. A carry permit only means you were verified not to be a felon, possibly took a lame class, and paid your fee. Nothing more.

    We all have personal standards. Even idiots.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lansing Mi
    Posts
    7,077
    I am a cut above, but its not because of my permit, its because of my moral compass and my training. Continued education in anything is good for ones character. I understand what the OP is saying. It is up to the individual to make themselves more than the average citizen. Just my .02
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

  8. #7
    VIP Member
    Array Hopyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Disappeared
    Posts
    11,632
    A permit makes you a cut above ONLY in the sense that it means that prior to your permit being issued, you had stayed out of trouble with the law.

    Since it has been reported that 1 in 3 adult males has spent some time in jail at some point in their life, I guess staying out of trouble makes you (us) a cut above in that regard.

    Otherwise, we all are the same. We all lie, cheat, steal, sin, do and say harmful things to others in one way or another. We just do it in very minor ways or in matters that keep it from getting to the attention of the law. We may not even think of some of our behaviors as cheating and stealing---e.g., using our boss's internet against company policy and wasting time (stealing time on the clock). Printing personal stuff at work using their paper.

    Maybe we left a rental apartment with damage we didn't bring to the owner's attention. Or we sold a house with issues not adequately disclosed.

    The list is endless. We are a cut above only that we have not come into the justice system or been brought to its attention.

  9. #8
    Member Array JohnD13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Upstate, NY
    Posts
    181
    The only difference is that I accept responsibility for the safety of my loved ones and myself. Other than that I don't see myself as superior to another. And I did these things before being licensed by any civil authority.

  10. #9
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    388

    As I put on my armchair Psychologist coat,

    allow me to answer your call for discussion. (Analysis is free, today, btw). Treo, you may want to ready your cutting torch at this point.

    Firstly, your posts sounds angry.

    Secondly, you seem to feel self loathing, as you may not feel qualified to carry a weapon, forget the legality, as you were 'grandfathered in' with only a DD214, but no formal training. If you did indeed receive such, you did not make that clear. If not, that can be resolved.

    Thirdly, you mention a prior record in your youth. I wonder if you have feelings of inadequacy as a result of your past transgressions.

    Just my take on your vehemently angry toned,(yes, imho) dissertation.

    No flame suit needed here, as I am being honest with my thoughts, as you were with yours. Hence the discussion you requested. No, I am not a M.D., PhD., or any other form of expert. Also, I do not consider myself a sheepdog, or superior because of possessing a permit.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array 64zebra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Panhandle of Texas
    Posts
    6,440
    in a sense I do think it shows that a person is a cut above the rest, but it depends on what state you're in

    you said all you had to do was show your military docs and you get approved, well thats way different than in Texas
    In Texas a CHL means you've passed local, state, and FBI background checks. No sealing of juvie records, and everyone (except LEO) must pass a shooting test. This does show you're different than the non-CHLs, and in a better way.
    Does the CHL make you superman? no
    does it make you a cop? no
    does it make you bulletproof? no
    does it make you incapable of committing crime? no

    it does make you capable of legally carrying your pistol in a lot more situations so can be a sheepdog.....a sheepdog to protect yourself and your family (your flock, not the entire citizenry) from the wolves, one is a sheepdog for your mindset not because you own a piece of paper or plastic
    This is the true meaning of the term sheepdog, not going around looking for criminals to pulverize. Protecting yourself/family from the threats.

    so I think CHL holders are a cut above the rest in a sense, BUT should never hold it as a chip on their shoulder or think they are something they are not

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    A permit makes you a cut above ONLY in the sense that it means that prior to your permit being issued, you had stayed out of trouble with the law.

    Since it has been reported that 1 in 3 adult males has spent some time in jail at some point in their life, I guess staying out of trouble makes you (us) a cut above in that regard.
    agreed
    LEO/CHL
    Certified Glock Armorer

    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
    --G.W. McClintock

    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    Carry OK, I dont get that impression from his post at all. He's expressing doubt and concern over 'some' gun owners' attitudes.

    I get those same feelings about a few issues....it stems from the fact that such people endanger our gun rights and can make us (CCers) look bad as a group. Not to mention just being plain dangerous.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Outside Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,309
    In some states, you need to prove you can shoot a gun and know the laws.....not too tough.

    In some states you dont need to do either.

    In some states, no matter what the laws, some women just stick a gun in their purse and go. Or men stick one in their pocket.

    That license really doesnt mean much except a way of tracking us and making politicians feel better and bringing some $ into counties.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,991
    Personally I think you took his comment outa context. I interpret it as; Most would think a permit holder is a law abiding citizen and that any kind of violent act such as described in the original thread would be a hellofa shock.

    I do think I'm a cut above the average Job blow out there carrying his firearm illegally, but that's where it ends. To presume anything more is taking too much liberty with the unknown IMO.

    GBK
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,355
    The posession of lethal force (CHP or not) SHOULD inherrantly necessitate a greater degree of personal responsibility. A higher standard of care, caution, respect, and maturity to de-escalate and walk away. In my personal opinion, a level of maturity that your original post sounds as if it is lacking.
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  16. #15
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,644
    Although running away, yelling, and calling 911 are not bad options with regard to self-defense, my permit allows me an 'extra' option that gives me some 'additonal' peace of mind as well as a higher sense of responsibility that keeps me focused..
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. LEO's: Does concealed-carry make a cop's life on the "street" more/less dangerous?
    By ccw9mm in forum Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: September 17th, 2009, 10:57 PM
  2. Replies: 49
    Last Post: October 15th, 2008, 10:45 AM
  3. One Of Those Things That Make You GO HUMMMMM... "Man Fatally Shoots Wife"
    By STITCH in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 7th, 2008, 07:53 PM
  4. Anyone make a straight-drop "VMII-style" holster?
    By Chris17404 in forum Defensive Carry Holsters & Carry Options
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: February 21st, 2008, 08:49 AM
  5. Parents, make sure your kids don't play this "game"
    By buckeye .45 in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: February 5th, 2007, 12:06 PM

Search tags for this page

a cut above permits

,

who said you are a cut above the rest

Click on a term to search for related topics.