This is a discussion on Scared at Costco within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Freedom Doc Also if he knew them why wouldn't he call by name instead of Hey you? - Well, he did say ...
okay, first off it was in a parking lot. Not that it really matters where its at. But it was OUTSIDE in a "not so friendly" neighborhood. So I have that running through my head too. Secondly, he did say "HEY YOU" in a manner that was not friendly. I dont want to say it was anger, but it was in a threating voice to me. I think he was just joking with my Father-in-law.
Hind sight is always 20/20. Looking back, yeah, I didnt have an exit plan. I was walking to it. I keep my head on a swivel ALL THE TIME and this guy stood out. Flight never entered my mind. I was never going to abandon my family if this guy tried anything stupid. I would have thrown my wife (who was in front of me) to the ground while drawing my weapon and firing two shots center mass. I have no issues with this. The fact that this guy didnt pose that much of a threat to me or my family (but still a threat. Anyone who approaches me is considered a threat until I know who they are and what their intentions are) I feel like I did the right thing. As soon as I found out this guy is a friend whom I have never met and obviously had not been around my family in a while since they didn't recognize him off the bat, I stood down.
Yes, I use the color scale set fourth by Homeland Security. Its a easy way of telling YOU how I felt and what I was thinking.
You never know. He might be a deranged lunitic hell bent on revenge because you swiped the last hot pocket sample. I know it pisses me off when im waiting and someone swoops in from the side and jacks my little johnsonville braut on a toothpick. STAY IN LINE PEOPLE OR SO HELP ME I WILL GO CONDITION HUNGRY!!!!
"In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N
Bottom line: you had a defensive firearm on your person and you evaluate the people in your vicinity. You encountered someone acting in an aggressive manner (albeit a joke) and heightened your awareness. You were prepared to go to the next level, if need be. As I read your story, you did fine.
I say stay home if no one can speak to each other. Wonder how Jesus would appear approaching us? Sketchy? Geez, I wonder how people live from day to day. Makes me think some should not own guns - always got that nervous trigger finger syndrome.
After a long night of driving, I ended up at my hotel in Little Rock, AR. It was called camp david or the white house...something political. Anyway, I already saw lowlifes walking around as I pulling into the lot at midnight. I pulled my backs close, opened up the duffle bag and kept my eyes open. Before I was done getting my bags I had a smaller man walk up to me and ask if I could help him a friend move something over away from my truck. Because I was alert, I was confident I could defend myself in several ways. If anyone knows that area, you already know I was in danger if it weren't for my reactions, and my size of course. He didn't present any weapons, but why would anyone in this room not applaud our friend in this room for being alert?
I all for CCP and I'm all for protecting ourselves and awareness of our surroundings and being prepared. I strongly advocate some good old fashion Self-Defense for those of you who don't know it and who solely rely on your gun for your protection and who go into Code colors everytime someone comes near you.
I really hate to see some of you go to prison or jail for using your guns in defense of yourselfs when that defense was not warranted but in your own mind and an innocent suffered for because your mind saw danger at every corner.
Just my view on it, not necessarily just this thread.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
Wow that is scary....
NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.
If alone and the old guy shouted I may have cause to be alarmed as I don't know that many people (or maybe I just can't remember them). But we have friends very active in social life for over 40 years and this type of event happens a lot. I'd probably stand behind my friend in case there was trouble. You know, give him a chance to take one for the gipper.
Threads like this scare the heck out of me.... A knee jerk reaction that could have gotten really bad had you drawn on a guy that meant no harm.
Right on Flyboy.
You may chose to disregard the (negative) comments in this thread as someone said to do, but then you will take nothing constructive away form it.
Life is full of surprises, don't shoot them all.
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27
What about at a park, where there are scores of folks milling around, coming and going? What about at a very large amusement park lot, such as Disneyland or similar, in which thousands of people are at any given time hunting for their cars, coming and going, with dozens near you.
There exists a place on the continuum of possible levels of preparedness and reactions that's a bit lower on the scale, one that will be easier to maintain, easier to live with, though it might require a bit smarter or quicker deployment if things do turn out to be ugly.
Each situation is different, of course, and it heavily depends on the circumstances and context. Bad neighborhood, outdoors, dark parking lot, risky time of the night, long way to walk, only one person in a group is armed, multiple people in unison approaching your group, forceful "command" words spoken by the leader of the approaching group ... at some point, all the indicators together spell danger. I'm suggesting that perhaps the danger level simply wasn't reached yet.
One simple way is to hold up your "stop sign" hand and loudly say "Hold it! Who are you?" to the incoming person. You can do that before the person comes right up on you, and if you know the person it gets that out of the way quickly. It also informs the person that you're aware of the situation and are thinking of the risks, but it's a simple, low-grade way of evaluating whether it's even a threat.
Anyway. It's hard to gauge things through a keyboard and a few written words, of course. You were there, and ultimately you'll be the judge of the variables that combined to cause you to believe there was a threat and that it was real.
But there are a number of people on the thread, here, who are suggesting it wasn't yet a threat and that treating people as such so early in the encounter can be taken very, very badly by people we meet. Ugly "Man with a gun!" encounters often start this way, in which a person quickly takes the stiff-arm route in an encounter that had no hallmark characteristics of a crime in progress, other than a "Hey, you!" and an approach.
Something to think about. A good, quality trainer in the H2H arts might help adjust the threat meter a bit.
Wow Avenger rough crowd tonite. Some of these guys would have you go ahead and turn in your guns and permit as you are no longer fit to carry.
I guess these guys live in the sticks where when someone runs up on you they just want a hug.
You guys are being too hard on the guy. First, as he noted, he never even thought to go to his gun. I think if someone is yelling at you and coming in your direction with relatively good speed, you have a good right to be, at the very least, wary of what the person's intentions are.
That said, I too wouldn't have gone for my gun. The guy's just yelling and coming towards you at this point. Nothing in his hands, nothing that tells you he's necessarily violent.. just maybe a bit crazy.
The situation turned out well. Being afraid or sparking red condition doesn't make you insane, a nut, or paranoid; it's just a reaction. And in this case I think the OP had a great reaction: he did nothing, as he should have.
Last edited by silo; January 18th, 2010 at 11:42 AM. Reason: apostrophe
Some good comments on here. I happen to disagree with all the "negative" ones. First, some people might not know my back ground in the military, I was overseas in combat zones for the majority of my enlistment and I am experienced in the Martial Arts. Yes, I perceive EVERYONE as a threat until I know who they are and what their intentions are. I dont know if that soccer mom at the park is a soccer mom or a potential mass murderer. Anyone and everyone is a risk and a danger to me. Yes, some people call that paranoia, some call it PTSD, but I call it being careful. If for one second, I let my guard down and not notice that seeming innocent person standing on the sidewalk at a busy intersection, I could be dead. Now, I am not saying I go to high alert status as soon as a stranger comes into my field of view. I am just saying that I am aware of their presence and I do not trust them as far as I can throw them. If they pose a higher threat to me by yelling at me in a not so friendly voice, or walking toward me in an aggressive manor when its obvious no one else is around, or starring me down, or pointing at me when he/she is talking with someone else, or, or, or... The list goes on.
What happened at Costco, I do believe I did everything right. Its not the first time someone has done that to me, its not going to be the last. It just hasnt happened in a while and it got my nerves up so I thought I would share. More idiotic things have been posted on this forum and not received so much crap about it! I mean, sure, if some of you believe that I did something wrong or something you would have done different then sure share. But expect to hear from me telling you that there are different ways of handling different situations, I since I am able to sit here and tell you about it means that on this one I did everything right! I teach this stuff for a living, maybe you all dont know this, I am sure some of you do, but, if I went to another instructor and asked him/her what they would have done, I am sure they would give me something similar to what actually happened.
Okay, I am done ranting.