2 carry signs at a bar last night!! one yes and one no? - Page 2

2 carry signs at a bar last night!! one yes and one no?

This is a discussion on 2 carry signs at a bar last night!! one yes and one no? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Don't remember who was asking, but in TX you are allowed to carry into a bar if they don't have the 51% sign. The law ...

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Thread: 2 carry signs at a bar last night!! one yes and one no?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array C9H13NO3's Avatar
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    Don't remember who was asking, but in TX you are allowed to carry into a bar if they don't have the 51% sign. The law says that they HAVE to put up the sign if they make 51%, so if you carry into a bar knowing they make 51% and they didn't have their sign up, it's on the bar for not putting up the sign, not on you.
    -Ryan

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

  2. #17
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    Not completely accurate. It is against the law to carry in a 51% establishment whether they have a sign or not. As of 9/1/09, it is a defense to prosecution if they did not have a 51% sign displayed. You could still be arrested but you would win in court. That doesn't mean that it won't cost you a lot of time and money.

  3. #18
    Member Array Teufelhunde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcon View Post
    That's not entirely true. You could legally carry inside an applebees or something, you just couldn't sit at the bar and do so.

    At least that's what our instructor told us. I went through the class in Mesa and at the time (according to him) if they weren't making most (51% or more) of their revenue from alcohol, it was still ok to go in.
    I'm afraid your instructor was wrong on this one. AZ has NEVER had any law dealing with 51% like Texas.

    Moot point anyway, as it has been changed as of last year.

  4. #19
    Ex Member Array G19inLV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    In some states carrying a gun while intoxicated is illegal,If I get in a SD situation I don't want the fact that my judgement may have been impaired by alcohol to be a factor in the investigation,Remember guns and alcohol don't mix
    It's not about drinking and getting drunk while carrying, it's about not being allowed to even walk in a bar. I don't drink..but I do go to places likes bars and lounges..

  5. #20
    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G19inLV View Post
    Well that law stinks. I have been thinking about moving to TX, but the more and more I learn about it, the more I feel like I will be losing my rights.

    In NV, you can not only carry into a bar, but you can drink up until a .10! Not that I condone it..but it's nice to know I don't have to leave it in the car just to walk in one.

    And yet you don't hear of drunk CCW holders shooting each other..go figure. I think states like NV show that it can be done.
    I never drink and carry except a glass of wine at home, but it would be great to be able to go in and get a sandwich or sumpin' without disarming.
    In MT OC is legal in a bar or bank, but CC is a crime.
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

    Patrick Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  6. #21
    Member Array varmonter's Avatar
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    I live in Vermont.We have no such restrictions.
    And I never hear about us drunks shooting each other.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dfxMM View Post
    Not completely accurate. It is against the law to carry in a 51% establishment whether they have a sign or not. As of 9/1/09, it is a defense to prosecution if they did not have a 51% sign displayed. You could still be arrested but you would win in court. That doesn't mean that it won't cost you a lot of time and money.
    Can you give me a statute number for that? I can't find it. I did see the requirement effective Sept 1, 2009 for the establishment to display a 51 sign, but I could not find anything on the defense to the prosecution if it were not displayed.

  8. #23
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    They added subsection (k) to 46.035. I couldn't find an updated version of the statute, but here is a link to the information.

    Texas Legislature Online - 81(R) History for HB 2664

  9. #24
    Member Array Kinetic's Avatar
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    Alright, thanks, I found it with your help. Here it is...

    Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

    (b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51".

    (c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

    (d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign under this section may be required to display a sign under Section 11.041 or 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code.

    (e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food and beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.

  10. #25
    Member Array Kinetic's Avatar
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    However, notice that there is no provision for defense of prosecution under subsection (i) for subsection (b) (1) unless you are a judge or justice, a judicial officer, or certain district and county attorneys. The subsections fall under Sec 46.035.

    h-1 It is a defense to prosecution under Subsections (b)(1), (2), and (4)-(6), and (c) that at the time of the commission of the offense, the actor was:

    (1) a judge or justice of a federal court;

    (2) an active judicial officer, as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code; or

    (3) a district attorney, assistant district attorney, criminal district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, county attorney, or assistant county attorney.

    (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

    (1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

    (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

  11. #26
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make. The defense to prosecution for the 51% sign is in subsection (k).

  12. #27
    RPB
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    Just a related note:

    Sounds like they got both signs the TABC passes out.
    An under 51% "blue sign" and an over 51% "red sign".
    I'd go with the red sign unless I checked their license, on which it will state "red sign" or "blue sign"
    The TABC should be notified about that establishment, and whichever sign is improper will be removed.

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