Maintenance man almost got himself killed

This is a discussion on Maintenance man almost got himself killed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Even my friends knock before they come into my house. I would think maintenance people would be told to do so also....

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Thread: Maintenance man almost got himself killed

  1. #16
    Member Array ZRT600's Avatar
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    Even my friends knock before they come into my house. I would think maintenance people would be told to do so also.
    Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.

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  3. #17
    KaH
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    Good decision to draw but refrain from shooting.

    My husband works nights and sleeps during day, so I often adjust my sleep schedule so I can sleep at least most of the morning with him.
    We were both dead asleep around lunchtime today and I heard someone knocking loudly on the apartment door across from us. He knocked in two-knock bursts while shouting "Maintenance!" at least five distinct times, pausing a few seconds between each time before I finally heard him use his key and enter the apartment. I then heard him shout "Maintenance!" three more times as he moved through the apartment, just to ensure if anyone was home they knew he was there.

    Two things crossed my mind: Smart guy. He was making sure if anyone was inside they knew damn well that he was there.
    But also: My husband slept through all of this. The walls of our complex aren't what I would call thin, but I'm a heavy sleeper and it woke me up the first time I heard the knock/yell. It crossed my mind that my husband could potentially sleep through all of that, be shocked if he woke up after all the "Maintenance" calls and found a strange man in the apartment. I know he'd come out with either the shotgun or his revolver.
    Luckily, neither us nor the maintenance people need to worry about this since we're moving into a duplex owned by our in-laws who know we have guns and will always call before coming over. :)

    Anyway, good SA and I would have done the same thing. Glad you didn't fire, though - that would have been quite unfortunate, though not unjustified.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    I would say you were justified in your actions.... and nobody was hurt which is the ideal scenario!
    USMC rule # 23 of gunfighting: Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

    I am the God fearing, gun toting, flag waving conservative you were warned about!

  5. #19
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Look at your lease. Again, the requirement is "unlawfully and with force."

    If your lease give your landlord the right to enter to do maintenance during regular work hours, the guy might have been unwise to not knock and might have been unwise to not make some sort of pre-arrangement, but the entry wasn't "unlawfully." It clearly wasn't with force either as it was with the key provided by the owner of the building for just such a purpose.

    I realize you were startled and momentarily frightened. But being frightened doesn't meet the letter of the law.
    might be unlawfully, without a knock.Texas Residential Landlord-Tenant Law - Landlord Tenant but then I am no lawyer. I did not read anything in the OP that mentioned emergency, or considered such by the person with whom the OP conversed by phone.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  6. #20
    EdC
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    I don't know what else to say other than than the maintenance guy was stupid beyond words, and you did well, making the right judgment in a tight situation, both for his sake and yours.

    Just a thought, but you might want let management know that they should remind employees to knock and announce themselves.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Living in an apt, IMO this is an especially irresponsible and fearful attitude. As you said...you are prepared and trained.

    You live in close quarters with alot of other people and people come and go. Do drunks, deaf people, kids deserve to be shot if they make mistakes? Is it better to ID your intruder first, or risk missing them and having a round go thru a wall and kill someone else?

    I'm hoping that your statement was more bravado than reality. Truth be told....your own incident proved it unwise.
    I understand where you're coming from, but are you suggesting we just assume whoever is entering our house unannounced isn't there to do anything illegal or cause any harm?

    I'm not saying blast whoever walks through the door, but if someone who doesn't live there enters unannounced, treat them with caution.

    I know my first thought wouldn't be "Oh, that's probably the maintenance man making an unexpected stop!"

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    I'd make a very modest investment in security. Install one of these.
    Amazon.com: Heavy-Duty Hotel-Style Door Security Lock - Bright Brass: Home Improvement
    Use it when you're home. Then, maintenance workers can't just walk in, and you don't risk your freedom, and good name, by shooting before any questions are asked.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if the Maintence guy had to do some "clean up" in his boxer shorts!

    Kind of dumb on the Maintence guy's part, especially in this day and time when thieves are very inventive in getting inside.

    I work for a County agency and there have been reports of people impersonating us to gain access to people's homes. Sometimes theives will pretend to be Utility workers so they can get inside. You just cannot trust everyone and especially someone who gains access to your place unannounced.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

    The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    BlueNinja, if you re-read my post, you'll see that I bolded something...and it referred to shooting 99.9% of the time under those exact circumstances.

    IMO, drawing in his scenario is completely supported....shooting isnt. And he did draw, and not shoot. And he would have been wrong to shoot.

    It was more about his rhetoric...which is thrown around pretty casually here. And he didnt even do it, thankfully.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    i dont care what the lease states...anyone who enters a locked apartment that does not belong to them...key or not...and does not knock and announce first is a moron and deserves what he gets on the inside...

    that is a serious training issue with the complex and needs to be addressed...

    law enforcement doesnt enter without announcement unless theyre going through a door with a ram...i dont care who you are...you announce your entry or face possible consequences...

    personally i think the op did a great job with the situation....good control and i'm sure he left an impression on the maintenance guy that wont be soon forgotten...

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    It could have been a home invasion.
    In a practical sense, it WAS a home invasion. The visitor had neither the right nor authority to come in unannounced, no different than any street thug. That he happened to have a key simply speaks to the stupidity of the superintendent.

    The one time I was in an apartment for a long time, I had a decent monitored alarm system wired up. I informed the owners of the place that I had done this, and that they were to gain my express authorization BEFORE any attempt to enter, per state law and my requirement. They worked with me on this just fine, never once entering without my knowledge or approval. Of course, state law allows them, as owners, to notify me 24hrs in advance and I essentially have to have very good reason to not allow them entry in order to do that. As well, in case of emergency, they can enter (ie, seeing smoke from the windows due to obvious fire). Otherwise, it's MY home, not theirs. The alarm system simply made this point unavoidably clear. I, too, didn't want them to get shot during an unauthorized, no-knock entry. Neither did they, to their credit.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  13. #27
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Living in an apt, IMO this is an especially irresponsible and fearful attitude. As you said...you are prepared and trained.

    You live in close quarters with alot of other people and people come and go. Do drunks, deaf people, kids deserve to be shot if they make mistakes? Is it better to ID your intruder first, or risk missing them and having a round go thru a wall and kill someone else?

    I'm hoping that your statement was more bravado than reality. Truth be told....your own incident proved it unwise.
    I agree that it would be better to identify the person first. I do not believe that should be the tenants first responsibility though. His first obligation is to protect himself and his family, it is not to look after the safety of some drunk, deaf person, kids, or other irresponsible person. They are second on my list of priorities.

    Had the worst happened and the tenant gone to trial I would hope a jury would not convict. I personally not convict because I would think the person entering would have more of a burden of responsibility on his shoulders.

    Michael

  14. #28
    Member Array Maltz's Avatar
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    I used to live in an apartment complex that had a second deadbolt on every unit. The second deadbolt had no outside face, so if you were home (and had that locked), no one could enter your apartment at all, unannounced or not, without breaking in the door. Also, I'd always get a week's notice of any scheduled maintenance work.

    Even in a hotel, the cleaning staff knocks several times before entering. Just walking in like that is supremely stupid.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array hudsonvalley's Avatar
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    I'm sure that the next time you'll be able to smell him 'cause I'm pretty sure that he, ahemed, himself.....
    Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
    ---Ronald Reagan

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maltz View Post
    The second deadbolt had no outside face, so if you were home (and had that locked), no one could enter your apartment at all, unannounced or not, without breaking in the door.
    That's a good idea, for an apartment where someone else could assume they have authority to enter unannounced.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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