Don't Bring A Handgun To A Rifle Fight (video)

This is a discussion on Don't Bring A Handgun To A Rifle Fight (video) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Actually no, it's been a long time since I carried a badge. This one is on me, Thanks, I was just wondering if PDs send ...

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Thread: Don't Bring A Handgun To A Rifle Fight (video)

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Actually no, it's been a long time since I carried a badge. This one is on me,
    Thanks, I was just wondering if PDs send officers to that type of training

    We need to remember that this incident occurred a long time a go in a country that no longer exists. It was a place known as “Pre 9/11 America” Had this occurred today in our country (post 9/11 America) I am sure the suspect would have been at, the very least, tazed as soon as he rushed the officer.

    For what it’s worth here are the mistakes I counted as a Non- LEO

    1. Letting the suspect get out of the car. I would have had my gun out as soon as he opened the door

    2. Letting the suspect get his hands in his pockets. Again, the gun would have come out and I would have been thinking about back up.

    3. Since I would have had the gun out when he put his hands in his pockets or opened the door I would have shot his ass a soon as he rushed me. As a part time security guard I can speak to this one, if I don’t know you, you do not approach me at work.

    4. Ditto on shooting when he went back to the car

    5. Double ditto when he pulled the gun

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  3. #47
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    Say 'Treo',
    I didn’t research the time period of this incident but there were many officer killings going on during my time. The ‘Newhall incident’ in California was still fresh in my mind as it was discussed during the academy. Heck, back then we could draw our service weapon without filing any reports and LEO political correctness was
    ‘make one move and you’re dead’.

    Today, LEO’s and CC citizens are in a lose-lose environment. We should all know that Obama is a puppet for the trial lawyers, so even when you're clearly justified, you’re still at risk.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by puncho View Post
    What state and county did this occur?
    From a quick search on http://www.copsite.com/lwf/lwf98.htm it looks like it was Kyle Dinkheller, Laurens County SO, GA. He is the only LEO listed as having been killed by shooting on 01-12-98.

    That is a bad video. I agree, he should have opened up on that nut job as soon as the rifle appeared. And he should have has a shotgun or a patrol rifle in his hand after the guy started dancing around.

    I still don't like the video being used as a promotional item for a school though.
    ,=====o00o _
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  5. #49
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I still don't like the video being used as a promotional item for a school though.
    This is not posted at anyone

    Your committment to civil liberties is measured by how willing you are to allow free expression of viewpoints you disagree with

  6. #50
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Sabre Say 'Treo',
    Heck, back then we could draw our service weapon without filing any reports and LEO political correctness was
    ‘make one move and you’re dead’.

    Today, LEO’s and CC citizens are in a lose-lose environment. We should all know that Obama is a puppet for the trial lawyers, so even when you're clearly justified, you’re still at risk.
    I don't think PC was even a consideration in this fight. (IMO) the officer never go past the "shock" stage. I'd be willing to bet his last thought was 'This isn't really happening".

    The only way (again, IMO) to overcome this is to A. get lucky and survive or B. get some stress innoculation training.

    The only way to learn how to think under stress is ( once again, IMO) to be put under stress and forced to think.


    I once got extra points during a MOUT training exercise because I was able to articulate that I had deliberately "shot" an OC because 1. he wasn't on my clearing team 2. he was in the room we were clearing armed and 3. he didn't drop his weapon and surrender immediately upon our entry. They couldn't beef my logic so they gave us the pass.

    The point of this story is that had they not made us make decision like that under pressure I never would have had the presence of mind to think out side the box and "shoot" the guy , who had been a jerk to me through out the exercise. Aint payback a Witch (W/ a Capital "B")?

  7. #51
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    My condolences to the family of Deputy Dinkheller.

    I have numerous VERY strong opinions on the rest of this, but I do not consider it appropriate to voice them in the same reply that I offer condolences to the fallen deputies family. I'll leave it at that.
    "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

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  8. #52
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Wow, I won't even say what I think of trying to make a buck off of the dead body of a murdered police officer (Direct quote from the Front Sight article: "Get your lifetime membership for pennies-on-the dollar here.") Wow.

    Anyway, some further (but a little dated) information on the cockroach who executed the police officer:

    [Found at "http://mentalhopenews.blogspot.com/2008/07/dinkheller-case-before-supreme-court.html"]

    By Terry Wolf - 07/08/08

    The State Supreme Court heard arguments Monday to uphold the conviction and death penalty case of Andrew Brannan who was sentenced to death for the 1998 murder of Laurens County Deputy Kyle Dinkheller.

    Brannan's case is before the state's highest court on a writ of habeas corpus, which is standard procedure filed by inmates who believe they have been wrongly convicted of a crime.

    Laurens County District Attorney Craig Fraser joined Assistant State Attorney General Beth Burton on Monday as the two presented combined arguments before the Supreme Court. Fraser and Burton argued that the January 2000 conviction and sentence should be carried out.

    "The jury spoke and we are confident that the court will uphold the jury's verdict and the death penalty," Fraser said just after leaving the state's highest court. "We've fought for 10 years in this case and we will continue to stand by the Dinkheller family to see that justice prevails."

    Fraser, then an assistant district attorney, prosecuted the case which was moved to Glynn County due to pretrial publicity in Laurens County. Brannan, now 60, was found guilty in January 2000 after jurors deliberated four hours. After another four hours, the jury recommended Brannan be sentenced to death.

    The Video Evidence

    Dinkheller's execution was captured on his own patrol cruiser recorder after he pulled Brannan over for speeding. The chilling video is now used nationwide to train police officers about waiting too long to respond aggressively to an armed suspect.

    The video documents the moments that followed after Dinkheller pulled Brannan over on Whipple's Crossing Road on Jan. 12, 1998. As Brannan exits his vehicle, he is seen on the video jumping around, flailing his arms and yelling at the deputy to shoot him.

    Dinkheller is heard trying to reason with Brannan even as Brannan reached back inside his vehicle to pull out a high-powered military issued rifle. Dinkheller repeatedly ordered Brannan to put the gun down.

    Brannan, a former Vietnam veteran and military trained killer, then began a gun battle with the young deputy, resulting in dozens of rounds being discharged at close range between the men. Both Dinkheller and Brannan reloaded several times in under 30 seconds. Brannan hit the deputy at least 10 times with the .30-caliber carbine, systematically disabling him until the final fatal shot.

    Dinkheller, 23, was married with one child and another on the way.

    In January, the Lauren's County Sheriff's Office and the District Attorney's Office held a ceremony marking the 10th anniversary of Dinkheller's murder. The memorial service commemorated Dinkheller's life and public service. A wreath placed at the site of his tragic death on Whipple's Crossing remains in view from I-16.

    Brannan's Appeals Process

    Brannan was scheduled for execution in May of 2003, but he was granted a stay of execution as he began his way through the appeals process. In criminal convictions, a direct appeal is immediately filed with the State Supreme Court, and ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court. In Brannan's case, the State Supreme Court upheld his conviction and death sentence; likewise the U.S. Supreme Court in essence affirmed the conviction by refusing to review the case.

    Brannan's next standard appeal was to file the writ of habeas corpus, which sent the case back to the Georgia Supreme Court justices.

    In petitioning for a habeas corpus, a defendant must prove that the court that ordered his imprisonment made a legal or factual error. Brannan's writ stated that he had been diagnosed by Veteran's Administration hospitals in Decatur and Augusta as suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and bipolar disorder. It further questioned whether Brannan was properly medicated at the time he killed Dinkheller.

    In March, Superior Court Judge Richard C. Sutton of Butts County granted Brannan's petition, saying "this Court finds ineffective assistance of counsel" by Brannan's defense attorney during the trial in January 2000. Brannan was represented during his trial by Richard Taylor and Larry Duttweiler.

    In his ruling, Sutton refers to "factual history" stating that Taylor was designated as lead counsel but had never represented a client in a death penalty proceeding.

    Sutton stated in his ruling that Brannan's defense attorneys "completely undermined" his defense by not adequately exploring the documented history of Brannan's mental illness. The judge stated that Brannan's attorneys limited his defense strategy to "guilty but mentally ill" which Sutton said left Brannan's bizarre actions on the video unexplained.

    Fraser said Monday that a ruling is expected from the Georgia Supreme Court by December 2008. If the court upholds Brannan's conviction, he can file another writ of habeas corpus with the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Once all appeals are exhausted, death row inmates have the right to appeal to the State Parole Board to commute the death sentence to a sentence of life in prison.

  9. #53
    Member Array Machina's Avatar
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    Wow..... I don't quite know what to say.

    My first reaction was why the officer did not tazer or OC the guy when he ran up. I know if I ran up on a cop in Richmond I would be tazered and in a police car. The I realize I am about to turn 23 and although I am the same age as the LEO I cannot speak to what he should have done.

    Those people who are willing to shoot up someone like that scum did shouldn't get the opportunity to appeal. Undermedicated, whatever, there is a video of him ruthlessly killing another person. He is no longer worthy of being considered a human.

    I will say one thing.... Dinkheller took 10 rounds before going down. That's a hell of a fighter.
    $cris@caferacer>wakeup.sh
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  10. #54
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Brannan hit the deputy at least 10 times with the .30-caliber carbine, systematically disabling him until the final fatal shot.
    I dn't believe he systematically did anything he just unloaded on the cop until he could get close enough to finish him off

  11. #55
    Member Array shjourdan's Avatar
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    Very sad. With the young officer would have openned fire sooner.
    "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
    -Thomas Jefferson-

  12. #56
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    A little background on the Deputy:
    He had been reprimanded on more than one occasion for being too aggressive. (anyone who works for an elected official will tell you how those go down) Kyle was threatened with his job and told if one more complaint was taken on him he was gone. He had been reprimanded a week before for pulling his weapon on a guy that had dived under the seat to get his wallet. Kyle had a baby on the way so you can bet that keeping his job and supporting his family were on his mind that day. Not getting a complaint was sure to be running through his mind.

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    A little background on the Deputy:
    He had been reprimanded on more than one occasion for being too aggressive. (anyone who works for an elected official will tell you how those go down) Kyle was threatened with his job and told if one more complaint was taken on him he was gone. He had been reprimanded a week before for pulling his weapon on a guy that had dived under the seat to get his wallet. Kyle had a baby on the way so you can bet that keeping his job and supporting his family were on his mind that day. Not getting a complaint was sure to be running through his mind.
    now THAT..... is very disgusting

  14. #58
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    Just another example of departments selecting new officers for GPA instead of toughness.

  15. #59
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    Just another example of departments selecting new officers for GPA instead of toughness.
    Just curious as to how you draw that conclusion from the video? Or do you know something the rest of us don't?
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  16. #60
    Ex Member Array maddyfish's Avatar
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    I watched the vid. That cop was mentally weak. Not a tough minded individual at all. And it got him shot up.
    His previous troubles with being too aggressive also add to my opinion of him. Mentally tough cops don't need to be overly aggressive.
    His past problems likely stemmed from his mental weakness. Weakness and fear that led him to be overly aggressive when not needed. And overly scared, weak, and inactive when needed.

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