When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses....

This is a discussion on When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LLT Really? I was under the impression that here in VA, if a sign is posted, you carry anyway and are caught, ...

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Thread: When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses....

  1. #151
    Member Array chiliman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Really? I was under the impression that here in VA, if a sign is posted, you carry anyway and are caught, it's a trespassing charge (whereas in other states, you must be notified to leave first) - is that not the case?

    Further - what constitutes proper signage in VA? For example, nearly every mall I've been in here has "No weapons" posted on the main mall entry doors, but we usually enter through a store (Sears, Macy's, etc.) and those rarely have signs posted at the entrances nor are there any from entering from the store to the mall? I'm under the impression the signs must be posted at all entrances (one would assume this would include the store entrances) otherwise, they're not valid - but I've not been able to pin an answer down for sure.
    In Virginia the sign has no weight. The trespass charge only comes into play if you don't leave immediately upon being asked or I suppose if you've been told before not to enter the premises armed and are caught again.

    Don't ask....Don't tell....respect the private property owner if they ask you to leave, and by no means sit there and try to "educate" them....just leave.

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  3. #152
    Member Array lordhamster's Avatar
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    To me it is a property rights issue. I am under no obligation to shop at stores that post such signs, but I will respect their right to their property.

    If a restaurant has a no pets policy I wouldn't take my pet dog in there... I'd go someplace else. Why would my respect for the private property of others be any different when it comes to my gun?

    IMO the best course of action is to not patronize such businesses and let the business owner know in writing why.

  4. #153
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammo girl View Post
    Do you bring in ammo clips, or must they be removed as well?

    And, what do you do with the firearm? Do you keep a lockbox in your truck/car, put it in the trunk, hide under seat, etc. Looking for clever ideas.

    Or, can you just unload it? Not really looking for legal advice, just wondering how people approach this issue.

    (yes I am new to cc, thanks for the help)
    Good questions.. ARE there states that recognize the prohibition of holsters and ammo as well? I hope not!

  5. #154
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    To me it is a property rights issue. I am under no obligation to shop at stores that post such signs, but I will respect their right to their property.

    If a restaurant has a no pets policy I wouldn't take my pet dog in there... I'd go someplace else. Why would my respect for the private property of others be any different when it comes to my gun?

    IMO the best course of action is to not patronize such businesses and let the business owner know in writing why.
    Well, I'd say it normally wouldn't be any different except your pet and your self defense firearm are two different things. Other than that, I agree with what you say..go someplace else and let them know why

  6. #155
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordhamster View Post
    To me it is a property rights issue. I am under no obligation to shop at stores that post such signs, but I will respect their right to their property.

    If a restaurant has a no pets policy I wouldn't take my pet dog in there... I'd go someplace else. Why would my respect for the private property of others be any different when it comes to my gun?

    IMO the best course of action is to not patronize such businesses and let the business owner know in writing why.
    I don't know. When it comes to CC, I see it the same as if a business decided to post a sign saying "no people carrying condoms or birth control pills/devices in their cloths/wallets/purses" because they don't believe in birth control. You don't see them posting signs such as that because they understand it is a belief issue that is put away inside your attire and is an invasion of your personal space

    So why should someone legally cc be any different? It is a birth right to the person carrying it and it is contained out of view within that person's personal space, so what makes a legally concealed gun any concern of another person period? Where does it stop? Can I now not carry my pocket knife in my pocket, a pen in my pocket, foreign money in my pocket or anything else because it somehow offends someone else's religious, personal, political or other beliefs if they were to know about it (which they don't)?

  7. #156
    Member Array HahnsXD's Avatar
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    When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses....
    I ignore it because it doesn't mean anything in WA...
    "You can't stop insane people from doing insane things by passing insane laws."-Penn Jillette

  8. #157
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    I don't know. When it comes to CC, I see it the same as if a business decided to post a sign saying "no people carrying condoms or birth control pills/devices in their cloths/wallets/purses" because they don't believe in birth control. You don't see them posting signs such as that because they understand it is a belief issue that is put away inside your attire and is an invasion of your personal space

    So why should someone legally cc be any different? It is a birth right to the person carrying it and it is contained out of view within that person's personal space, so what makes a legally concealed gun any concern of another person period? Where does it stop? Can I now not carry my pocket knife in my pocket, a pen in my pocket, foreign money in my pocket or anything else because it somehow offends someone else's religious, personal, political or other beliefs if they were to know about it (which they don't)?
    Good Post!

    It'll be hard for someone to argue against this logic, but needless to say, some will try.

    GBK
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  9. #158
    Member Array foots402's Avatar
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    If the sign is illegal I ignore it myself.
    SC-CWP
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    It's better to have it when you need it then need it and dont have it.

  10. #159
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Good Post!

    It'll be hard for someone to argue against this logic, but needless to say, some will try.

    GBK
    It's most certainly NOT a 'belief' issue.

    I have pretty much come around on this issue...based on the fact that it is a privacy issue. They have no business knowing what is concealed by your person or in your purse.

    So they have no right to object to condoms/bc concealed because of privacy rights.

    And also because carrying a gun is a right in most states and most states support that, over and above the business owner's personal beliefs. And birth control is not a right (altho it's a damned good idea!)
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by paaiyan View Post
    In Oklahoma it's my understanding from more than one source that signs don't really mean anything legally. If it's a place I legally can't carry such as a federal building or school, I follow the requirements of the law for disarming. If it's a business that has a sign posted, I walk right in and do my business that time for convenience's sake, but make a mental note not to give them my business anymore.

    The thing about carrying into a business with a sign for me is this: their sign means nothing legally. The only thing they could get me for is trespassing if they see it, ask me to leave and I don't. However, allowing them to see it breaks the cardinal rule of CC to begin with. So basically, as long as I'm doing my job as a responsible CCer, they should never have reason to ask me to leave.
    on the money..
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

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  12. #161
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    It's most certainly NOT a 'belief' issue.

    I have pretty much come around on this issue...based on the fact that it is a privacy issue. They have no business knowing what is concealed by your person or in your purse.

    So they have no right to object to condoms/bc concealed because of privacy rights.

    And also because carrying a gun is a right in most states and most states support that, over and above the business owner's personal beliefs. And birth control is not a right (altho it's a damned good idea!)
    I'm a little confused by the text in bold.

    The problem seems to be most business owners believe they have the right to set the rules for CC inside their respective establishments, even though most states will not support that belief/action.
    IMO, it's definitely a belief on their part that their rights as a business owner trumps yours and my rights to defense as a consumer, at least while on their property. I would say for the record, that IMO it's a combination of both, and they both run hand N hand with each other. YMMV

    GBK
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  13. #162
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    I'm a little confused by the text in bold.

    The problem seems to be most business owners believe they have the right to set the rules for CC inside their respective establishments, even though most states will not support that belief/action.
    IMO, it's definitely a belief on their part that their rights as a business owner trumps yours and my rights to defense as a consumer, at least while on their property. I would say for the record, that IMO it's a combination of both, and they both run hand N hand with each other. YMMV

    GBK

    This is what I was referring to:

    "Originally Posted by Phantoms
    I don't know. When it comes to CC, I see it the same as if a business decided to post a sign saying "no people carrying condoms or birth control pills/devices in their cloths/wallets/purses" because they don't believe in birth control. You don't see them posting signs such as that because they understand it is a belief issue that is put away inside your attire and is an invasion of your personal space"


    A business owner can choose who to let into their store/what to allow in their store quite a bit...as long as it isnt against the law. Like discrimination is against the law...you can say "no gays' because that is against anti-discrimination laws. You can say 'no dogs' but you cant say 'no service dogs' because that is against the law.

    The birth control thing is based on the bus. owner's beliefs. If there's a way to walk around displaying your birth control (lol), a store owner can ask you to leave. It's not good for business, so most keep their beliefs to themselves. (I'm pretty sure that a private business owner can ask anyone to leave at any time as long as they (owner) are not breaking a law doing so).

    So to me, it's not relevant to the gun discussion. I have a right to carry a gun in the state. For me, as I explained, it comes down to a privacy issue...they have no right to 'discover' what I have concealed. And they have the right to ask me to leave if I inappropriately reveal it.

    Because my choice to cc that gun is indeed supported by state law (here).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  14. #163
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Just smile and walk on in.
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  15. #164
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    I have a small pistol safe mounted on the center hump in the back seat of my Xterra. I can easily reach the safe from the drivers seat. When I must disarm I place my weapon in the safe. I usually do not take off my holster or my spare magazine. The safe also comes in handy to store valuables like my wallet, camera and such.

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