When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses....

This is a discussion on When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 9MMare While I am in agreement with many in this thread and try to take my business elsewhere when I have choices.....the ...

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Thread: When you see the sign "no firearms" on businesses....

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    While I am in agreement with many in this thread and try to take my business elsewhere when I have choices.....the signs do not mean nothing.

    There is a property owner (or perhaps company) that also has rights. That should be respected...dont you want your rights respected?

    So I'm not objecting to your choices....If you choose to enter and remain concealed, that's your decision. Your priority is your safety, etc. I'm just stating that it's hypocritical to just dismiss others' rights when you value your own so much.
    It all depends on which state you are in. In some states, property owners do not have the right to ban firearms on their property and CHL holders do have the right to carry on private property.

    It is in error to make a blanket assertion that "property owners have rights..." with the implication being that carrying a firearm somehow violates a landowners rights. This would only be true, to my knowledge, in a small minority of states (those in which signs have legal effect).

    It is critical to the issue to note that landowners only have the rights that are given to them by the people of their particular state. On the other hand, the right of the People to keep and bear arms is a bit more inalienable.

    The concept that you brought up might be better stated as 'respecting the wishes of property owners'. For instance, a local store has a sign at the register forbidding me the use of my cell phone while in line, or interacting with the cashier. If I find it convenient to use my phone at the register, I am no more violating the property owners rights than if I carry a pistol into a store that has posted an unenforceable gunbuster sign.

    The property owner (or a representative) does, however, have the legal right to ask me to leave -- i.e. to 'trespass' me. Using the cell phone does not violate his rights. Staying, after he has asked me to leave, does.

    FWIW, I think that property rights have become so diluted that they are basically worthless. But things are what they are, and it's not fair to try to shame CHL holders into relinquishing the rights that they have, by implying that they are violating someone elses rights, and calling them hypocrites. If you want more property rights, change the state laws.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    While I am in agreement with many in this thread and try to take my business elsewhere when I have choices.....the signs do not mean nothing.

    There is a property owner (or perhaps company) that also has rights. That should be respected...dont you want your rights respected?

    So I'm not objecting to your choices....If you choose to enter and remain concealed, that's your decision. Your priority is your safety, etc. I'm just stating that it's hypocritical to just dismiss others' rights when you value your own so much.


    I understand what you mean. Actually, that is the “eternal question” in a democracy; what are my rights and what are your rights; where does my democracy ends and where does your democracy begin.

    It is obvious that a property owner shall for example have right to decide who is allowed to be in its property or not. However, if we are talking about private properties that are accessed by the public it is not always that easy, and then it might be a little different. In this country, the majority of the business accessed by the public are private owned (at least so far); e.g. Wal-Mart, gas stations, malls, banks, pharmacies, etc. Imagine if all those owners decided that they did not want people to carry firearms in their property, or perhaps that women should not carry firearms in their property … or that people should not wear shorts, or that women should not wear skirt or show their legs in any way while in their business (which actually happens in several countries in the world, and if they do it they get arrested and punished)? I am sure that some business owners in this country believe that since we are talking about their private property they should have right to decide it. However, this should imply having the same problem like before, but this time in the opposite way; what are their rights and what are your rights? Remember that your rights end where theirs begin.

    No question that the Federal and state laws must be followed no matter if we like them or not, as well as the rules that the owner dictates in it private residence (if they are not against the law). However, are you willing to be killed by a psycho when you are at the mall just because the owner does not like for example the caliber of the gun you are carrying and then he decided to ban it from his property? Or if you are married or have girlfriend, are you willing to tell her not to wear skirt next time she goes to the mall just because the owner does not like it and then he banned it? Where does the limit go?
    Different matters, same principle.
    Last edited by GM; January 24th, 2010 at 07:11 PM.
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  4. #33
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    Good Postings

    Then you can always look for the businesses that post signs like these and give them all of you business.
    Attached Images

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    Senior Member Array kahrcarrier's Avatar
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    In Indiana, such signs are rare, and in most cases, not legally binding.

    The last one I actually saw was a few years ago in Indy, I believe in Methodist Hospital, where my mother was undergoing a procedure.

    I had been there several hours before I noticed the sign. I was carrying as usual, so I went back to reading my magazine, and my pistol stayed concealed.

    If I had been asked to leave, I would have.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by J4Cub View Post
    Then you can always look for the businesses that post signs like these and give them all of you business.
    Welcome to the forum from FL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    I've actually never seeen a sign on a business except my bank and I use the drive through there. I routinely walk right by the signs forbidding OC in city buildings but I'm not OCing either.

    I have a lock box cabled to the seat in my car in case I have to lock my weapon ,or other valuables, up.
    The signs at city buildings (Castle Rock) said no firearms and didn't mention OCing . They threatened $1,000 fine and 1 year in jail. I texted the sign to RMGO and they contacted the city DA and threathened an injuction if they didn't change the sign. The DA said the city wasn't trying to limit CCW.

  8. #37
    New Member Array mcosr's Avatar
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    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Unless there's a metal detector my default is "what sign?".
    My great uncle has always told me he'd rather be alive to stand trial for carrying where prohibited than dead because he obeyed a sign & something happened...

  9. #38
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    Cammo Girl,

    I assume by now you have figured out you asked a question that can only be answered by knowing where you live.

    Most of us live in the USA . Tell us your state and you can get a better answer.

  10. #39
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    Get a lockbox mounted in your vehicle, and I am with most others here only place i dont carry are those required by law. If your business says no carry i will spend elsewhere. Great thing at my old job owner had sign that said emloyees and patrons may or may not be packing. Loved that sign

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    There is a property owner (or perhaps company) that also has rights. That should be respected...dont you want your rights respected?
    Yep...right to stay alive...and keep my property secure on my person (vs in a vehicle)

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    So I'm not objecting to your choices....If you choose to enter and remain concealed, that's your decision. Your priority is your safety, etc. I'm just stating that it's hypocritical to just dismiss others' rights when you value your own so much.
    However, the business is not like a private home. Businesses invite the public to the store--the public is expected to enter the store. That said, my concealed firearm is no one else's business.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  12. #41
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    While I am in agreement with many in this thread and try to take my business elsewhere when I have choices.....the signs do not mean nothing.

    There is a property owner (or perhaps company) that also has rights. That should be respected...dont you want your rights respected?

    So I'm not objecting to your choices....If you choose to enter and remain concealed, that's your decision. Your priority is your safety, etc. I'm just stating that it's hypocritical to just dismiss others' rights when you value your own so much.
    I don't see it that way. Any business owner that would post such a sign is trying to trample on my 2A rights. A business is a public place. It's no different than if they put up a sign that said no blacks, no women or no elderly.

    Now a person's private residence, they have every right to decide what's allowed/not allowed and if you want to visit that private residence, you should respect their wishes.

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    if i'm entering a business, i ignore the sign, if need to shop there, and i can't do my shopping anywhere else.

    if i'm going into a courthouse, i check my firearm with the sheriff's deputies, or court security.

    the only time i leave my gun in my car or home is when i need to go to my daughter's school, but that's only a couple of times a year.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    There one movie theater that just put signs up so small I didn't even notice them
    so I carried a couple of times after I knew.After all it's company policy all they can do is ask me to leave.Besides I figure they are going to need a good set of
    eyes because I don't print.Just recently they Regal started putting public announcement regarding no handguns.Regal is an Aussie owned so we know why
    they are so anti. Why do we allow the selling of America to foreigners?

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post

    Otherwise, I ignore posted signs....while I believe it is altruistic to believe you'll take business elsewhere, there are times where you just need to get what you need and move on.
    This is how I do it!
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    I don't see it that way. Any business owner that would post such a sign is trying to trample on my 2A rights. A business is a public place. It's no different than if they put up a sign that said no blacks, no women or no elderly.

    Now a person's private residence, they have every right to decide what's allowed/not allowed and if you want to visit that private residence, you should respect their wishes.

    Again, you do not see the hypocrisy. He tramples on your rights, but it's ok for you to trample on his.

    It may be a public place, but he already has the right to refuse service based on other criteria. Those are his choices and he knows his business may or may not suffer because of them.

    Like I said....having read this debate several times...people will make their own decisions carrying. But who says your rights are more important than his or hers? You I guess
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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