Incident nearly turned ugly…

Incident nearly turned ugly…

This is a discussion on Incident nearly turned ugly… within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here was my situation where I nearly drew my gun. A couple months ago I am driving and I am coming to a light ready ...

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Thread: Incident nearly turned ugly…

  1. #1
    Member Array VrodRay's Avatar
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    Incident nearly turned ugly…

    Here was my situation where I nearly drew my gun.
    A couple months ago I am driving and I am coming to a light ready to make a right on a nearly dead street leading to my parents house. The only car other than mine was a red Celica with a young lady driving waiting to exit the street I was about to make the right on. I held off on making a right b/c there was a man appearing to walk across the intersection in front of the Red car and into what would be the path of my truck. But just as he starts passing in front of the red car, he quickly turns and jumps on the hood of the red car. I can’t believe I am witnessing this strange event, and by instinct have my 239 already out and ready to go. I hold off on exiting my vehicle b/c I am not sure of the situation just yet. The young girl in the car seemed to be in shock, but I don’t know if it’s a crazy friend or what, so I hold off. He’s on the hood for about 2 sec. and then rolls off to the pass. side and tries her handle. Now I am opening the door and starting to exit, realizing I am witnessing a potential carjacking/kidnapping. By now my pitt bull had read my body language and is now has eyes locked on this guy. (extremely well trained, and loveable, just don’t hurt me or my girl in front of him) Then I think it clicked in the girls head what was happening and she floored it through the red light, and even rolled over his foot. I immediately called the police and gave them a description and where he was, since he had walked to an area where I could not follow with the truck.
    Here are some of the issues I would love to get come commentary on….
    I never saw a weapon, and would not have put him down unless I saw one. However how do you guys think the LEOs would handle it if I drew on him and was able to get him on the ground to defuse the situation? It was obvious he intended to do harm to the girl, and had he succeeded in opening up the pass door I believe she would be in fear for her life, even without a weapon. Maybe deadly force wasn't warrented by some action needed to be taken.
    So I never heard anything else from the Police about it so I assume they never caught the guy. But I was glad I didn’t have to kill him, and I’m glad he probably had a broken foot b/c of it.
    Any thoughts are welcome….


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    You could have unleashed the dog on him: "Officer, I opened the door to get out and help the young lady and my dog jumped out."

    Good thing the young lady floored it, better that his foot was run over, and best that you didn't have to draw and shoot. Coming to the rescue of someone else with your weapon drawn not knowing if he had a weapon or not could have been questionable depending on your state laws. The police should have checked the ERs for a guy with a hurt foot.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    In this situation I would have done the something. If she didnt drive off, I probably would have had my hand near my weapon and shouted at him to stop. If he continued, the I would have drew down on him and ordered him to stop once more, continually surveying the situation. If he turned his attention to me and off the girl, then job well done. If he continued to harass the girl, I would wait until she was just about to be physically harmed and put one in him. But most likely, he would run at the sight of my firearm. At most you would get a brandishing charge and depending on the area and the officer/officers who take your report, you would probably get off and even a pat on the shoulder.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    And it turns out that the woman was the one that grabbed the mans daughter from a nearby park and had taken the child without permission. He tried to stop her at an intersection but was shot by a third party that happened onto the scene as he was trying to get the woman to stop.......

    Call the cops, yell, block his path, use OC spray but don't bring a lethal force into a situation that you don't know the whole story.

  5. #5
    New Member Array zipmedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    Call the cops, yell, block his path, use OC spray but don't bring a lethal force into a situation that you don't know the whole story.
    Couldn't agree more with the bolded part above.

    Let's say the OP did draw. The offender, who could have been armed, may have drawn his weapon, fired at you, and hit a bystander on the sidewalk who was completely oblivious. Whether the offender is caught later or not, it won't be any fun trying to defend yourself when attorneys for the bystander argue their client may have have been shot if you hadn't drawn your weapon in the first place. Some less-enlightened places in this country may also consider you drawing your weapon assault, since you weren't the one in fear for your safety.

    Laws of your state/county/municipality may be a useful guide, as would the advice of a licensed attorney. ;-) By and large, though, I'm of the mindset that my weapon is to protect myself and my family - not strangers. Call it cowardly or selfish, but I'm unlikely to escalate a situation (that doesn't involve me) beyond contacting the police.

    ...I do like the "my dog ran past me as I got out" idea, though.

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    And it turns out that the woman was the one that grabbed the mans daughter from a nearby park and had taken the child without permission. He tried to stop her at an intersection but was shot by a third party that happened onto the scene as he was trying to get the woman to stop.......

    Call the cops, yell, block his path, use OC spray but don't bring a lethal force into a situation that you don't know the whole story.


    Why should you take on responsibility for someone else when they didn't take on that responsibility for themselves?

    Personally I wouldn't even be holding this guy. There is no victim present, and I can guarantee that his story will have you looking like the aggressor. Make sure that the potential cost are woth the price if you want to play with guns.

    I have my lines, but this situation doesn't meet it for me. Now if the female in the red car had been a family member, loved family member, my response most likely would be different, but then I'd know who the players are too.

    Biker

  7. #7
    New Member Array zipmedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I have my lines, but this situation doesn't meet it for me. Now if the female in the red car had been a family member, loved family member, my response most likely would be different, but then I'd know who the players are too.
    Well said.
    Please try not to consider any of my posts as legal advice; they are merely my opinion.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    BikerRN and zipmedic, I agree to the utmost about getting involved and I should have preceded my response with:

    "IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTION THAN TO INTERVEEN WITHOUT KNOWING THE WHOLE SITUATION" then call the cops, yell, block his path, use OC spray but don't bring a lethal force into a situation that you don't know the whole story.

    This is a frequent discussion in my classes and it's amazing how many don't realize that what is fact doesn't always meet the eye.

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zipmedic View Post
    Let's say the OP did draw. The offender, who could have been armed, may have drawn his weapon, fired at you, and hit a bystander on the sidewalk who was completely oblivious. Whether the offender is caught later or not, it won't be any fun trying to defend yourself when attorneys for the bystander argue their client may have have been shot if you hadn't drawn your weapon in the first place.
    Yes! Once you draw your gun, you change all the dynamics of the situation. It can cause innocent bystanders to panic and think you are the bg, esp if they didnt see what had happened. They can also call attention to you so that you lose the element of surprise.

    One might be an off-duty LEO....and he many not know what's going on.

    Or yes, drawing your gun may start a gunfight that may get innocents killed or injured.

    If death to yourself or another is not imminent....remember that your gun is not your only (nor first) option.


    Another thing that has been brought home to me lately, is that no matter how sure your shots....even after taking mortal shots, a bg can still do damage...keep shooting...anyone in the vicinity. It floors me each time I read the stories of the ones who take GOOD multiple large caliber hits...and still kill and maim before dying.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Bullseye View Post
    And it turns out that the woman was the one that grabbed the mans daughter from a nearby park and had taken the child without permission. He tried to stop her at an intersection but was shot by a third party that happened onto the scene as he was trying to get the woman to stop.......

    Call the cops, yell, block his path, use OC spray but don't bring a lethal force into a situation that you don't know the whole story.
    Precisely why I dont get in the middle of dometic situations. Had it turned out that it was a carjacking afterall where a weapon was produced by the BG, your best response is to get on the horn to the PD and follow the guy. Give the description of your car, the victims car, and by-the-second location of where theyre driving. Being a good witness is often the best way to stop something from really bad from happening.

  11. #11
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    Based upon your description, a call to 911 would have been appropriate. Pounding on the hood of a car is not a felony and certainly not a time to introduce a firearm.
    I would stay away from situations that don't involve my immediately family, friends or neighbors. The world is full of problems and I'm not a cop. Driving around a big city, one can find many examples of minor crimes and domestic situations where the victims have CHOSEN not to have the weapons to defend themselves...their choice.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Based upon your description, a call to 911 would have been appropriate. Pounding on the hood of a car is not a felony and certainly not a time to introduce a firearm.
    I would stay away from situations that don't involve my immediately family, friends or neighbors. The world is full of problems and I'm not a cop. Driving around a big city, one can find many examples of minor crimes and domestic situations where the victims have CHOSEN not to have the weapons to defend themselves...their choice.
    retsupt99,

    In this instance, I think the woman did exactly what I would have done. Even with a gun on my person, the best weapon in that situation would be the vehicle I was driving. No deadly force issue (unless she ran the BG down), conflict avoided.

    For all we know she WAS armed and made the choice NOT to draw.

    Other than that, I agree completely.
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  13. #13
    Member Array wkientz1's Avatar
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    And once you had fired your gun, remember that court cost alone starts at $5K deposit.
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  14. #14
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    You could have unleashed the dog on him: "Officer, I opened the door to get out and help the young lady and my dog jumped out."
    And, if the dog messed him up bad enough, they would put your dog down as vicious.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zipmedic View Post
    ...I do like the "my dog ran past me as I got out" idea, though.
    "my dog ate the BG."

    Glad to hear the young lady had presence of mind to bug-out, and automatic door locks to buy her the seconds she needed to react.

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