Interesting shoot no shoot at the local Wally World.

This is a discussion on Interesting shoot no shoot at the local Wally World. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We had an incident at a WalMart here in Maine a couple weeks ago. Crazy lady asks to see a gun at the gun counter ...

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Thread: Interesting shoot no shoot at the local Wally World.

  1. #1
    Member Array Riccur's Avatar
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    Interesting shoot no shoot at the local Wally World.

    We had an incident at a WalMart here in Maine a couple weeks ago. Crazy lady asks to see a gun at the gun counter and turns it on the clerk. Now imagine some poor guy/gal out on their wally walk and they come around the corner and see this situation. I have run through it a few times and it could have been a very bad outcome for the woman. What do you think would happen to a person who drew down and shot the lady. Some on here indicate that they would not ask questions before shooting.I am sure the action of the clerk would have supplied enough info to give a person with a CCW some indication of whether he was indeed in danger. But what are the chances the lady got some ammo off the shelf and loaded the gun. Interesting real life scenario, have at it folks.

    Outcome was security and the local PD managed to subdue her and she was carted off to the loony farm. This occurred on the same day a granny was caught with a gun at the Federal Building. She was looking for the post office and had forgotten to take her gun off when she left home.
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    Member Array reyno2ac's Avatar
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    I would say that it depends a lot on the demeanor of the woman, and whether or not you saw how the whole event unfolded. If I were to walk around the corner and see her with her gun pointed in some ones face then she is probably going to be shot. If I saw her ask for the gun then point it at the sales clerk then I know its not loaded, I would call the police immediately while keeping a very close eye on her and a hand on my gun, if any ammo shows up she's going down.

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    Most that have taken a gun safety class or those that understand ROE or "use of force" would never shoot to protect another without at leat a "drop the gun", Im sure the salesman would have said the gun was unloaded, but the presence of a CC with his gun drawn might have made a diference.

    However, no mater how well meaning it may be of a CC to take action, things would definatly be complicated when the first LE officer shows up.
    Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccur View Post
    Crazy lady asks to see a gun at the gun counter and turns it on the clerk.
    Quote Originally Posted by reyno2ac View Post
    I would say that it depends a lot on the demeanor of the woman, and whether or not you saw how the whole event unfolded.
    Exactly.

    The LAST thing I'm going to presume is that a crime is in progress, simply due to an apparent customer being handed a gun and then aiming it in the direction of the clerk. I mean, at many gun stores I've been to, this is standard practice by many of the customers on any given day.

    Everything depends on what is seen and heard, the supporting circumstances. For example:

    • Did I see the entire exchange, so that I know under what circumstances a gun came to be in the hand of the "customer"?
    • What is the demeanor of each actor, in the scene?
    • What is being said, is it a credible threat?
    • What corroborates the credible threat? Why?
    • Your "take" on it is that the "customer" appeared "crazy." Well, her actions and words either do or don't corroborate the threat.


    Without answers to these types of questions, I would absolutely need to await the outcome. Heck, I have personally had a dozen instances of other customers turning gun muzzles in my direction while they perused them at the counter. I've even had a couple different clerks do the same. Did it once myself to a clerk, though immediately caught and corrected the error. A lot of pieces would need to fall into place to assure me it was a crime in progress. As with most violent attacks on others.

    Which brings us to the crux: you can't really know a person with a gun is a threat until the crime is occurring. Before then, it can be an incredible leap of faith as to whether you've misinterpreted things or correctly read them. Though, when it's clear, it can be absolutely crystal clear the moment you realize things are going sideways.
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    No way Jose... I would immediately digress behind cover and call 9-1-1. I’m soOoo blessed that problems come to me via email, snail mail or the dreaded phone calls. I sure don’t need to go out of my way to take on more stuff, that I don’t want, nor can I afford. Conversely, I can’t always legislate my actions in that I inherently want to help someone in need. Still, I would air on the side of restraint and be a good observer if at all possible.
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
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    Member Array rednecksport's Avatar
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    Our WW has trigger locks on all the guns so this cant happen.
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    Member Array reyno2ac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rednecksport View Post
    Our WW has trigger locks on all the guns so this cant happen.
    I wish my wally world sold guns...

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    Member Array Ramen's Avatar
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    My WW doesn't have trigger locks but the only ammo available is several paces away and its hunting shot. I'm wondering something, that if the clerk just handed it to her and knew it was unloaded ( yeah sorta iffy) why not just jump the counter grab the gun and beat her with it?

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Draw, aim, command, "DROP THE GUN NOW!" Anything but compliance has bad consequences. Also, the clerk should be yelling - "It's not loaded, it's not loaded!" And why isn't he grabbing it away from her?

    Too many unknown variables to really make a call on this one.

  11. #10
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riccur View Post
    We had an incident at a WalMart here in Maine a couple weeks ago. Crazy lady asks to see a gun at the gun counter and turns it on the clerk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Draw, aim, command, "DROP THE GUN NOW!" Anything but compliance has bad consequences.
    Really? For what crime? An unloaded gun is handed to the customer and the muzzle is then "turned on the clerk" (by another person's description). That justifies being drawn on, and then commanded to follow orders else she gets shot?

    Just wondering about the logic and justifiability, here.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    An unloaded gun is handed to the customer and the muzzle is then "turned on the clerk" (by another person's description).
    Go back and actually READ the OP. I come on the scene AFTER the gun is aimed at the clerk. I don't know if it's loaded or not - and being wrong can be deadly.

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Which brings us to the crux: you can't really know a person with a gun is a threat until the crime is occurring.
    You can die thinking like that. I assume someone with a gun - depending on their demeanor, IS a threat until proved otherwise.

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    So pointing a firearm at another person can be considered assault.

    Was this woman simply being careless or was she actively trying to intimidate the clerk with the gun?

    They have trigger locks on everything at WW here and the employees don't even have the keys. I would guess the manager has them locked up somewhere.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Every WM that I've visited doesn't have ammunition available on the counter. It's behind the counter or under lock & key.
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Forget what the actual outcome was and go off the beaten path for a moment.

    If you walked in on this and know the clerk handed her the gun. You would more than likely believe the gun was empty. But in my twisted analytical mind I would wonder, could these two be acting in concert to rip off the store? Did the clerk load the gun for her before the incident started in case they were cornered?

    Often enough an insider helps in some way with the outsider playing the role as the bad guy and the insider just doing their job. Everything isn't always as it seems.
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