Why Treo Doesn't Inform

Why Treo Doesn't Inform

This is a discussion on Why Treo Doesn't Inform within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted on THR.org in Nov 2008 pulled over with my gun condition 1 omg!!! - Page 2 - THR Why Treo Doesn't Inform ________________________________________ ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Why Treo Doesn't Inform

    Originally Posted on THR.org in Nov 2008
    pulled over with my gun condition 1 omg!!! - Page 2 - THR
    Why Treo Doesn't Inform
    ________________________________________
    If you are licensed, why not tell them. "I am a CHL holder, sir, and I have a firearm (pistol) in a holster on my right (left) hip. What would you like me to do?"
    I can't believe you could read this thread and ask that question.

    (there is a link to "this thread" at the top of my post)

    THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES IF YOU LIVE IN A STATE W/ NO DUTY TO INFORM


    There really isn't a matter of principal involved in not informing I simply wish to avoid the hassle tat2edangel went through.

    I also wish to avoid the unsafe gun handling and do everything in my power not to prolong the stop.

    And I can't think of a quicker way to find an anti cop thatn to inform needlessly

    When Tat2 told the cop ( no offense I'm assuming female because of the name) she was armed she handed him a problem to solve (albeit she had no option) the more problems that cop has to solve the longer you're going to sit on the side of that road.

    Remember Miranda applies as soon as that cop contacts you anything you say can and will be used against you.

    In tat's situation nothing you say is going to help you, I would have said " Officer I'm not comfortable answering these questions, I want to see your supervisor and my lawyer and I'm not saying another word until one or both is here" and I wouldn't have.

    Tat I can't stress it enough you need to contact old boy's sup and tell them you request a response and want to know what steps were taken to solve the problem. You might even want to have your attorney send the letter.

    ETA
    P.S. I personally would never verbally inform a cop I was armed. In Colorado I have to surrender my permit on demand, I take “are you armed?" or “Do you have any weapons in the vehicle"?
    as a "demand". I don't say a word I hand the cop my permit and let him assimilate the information at his pace then I do as I'm told
    ________________________________________
    Last edited by Treo; November 24, 2008 at 09:05 PM.


  2. #2
    Member Array silo's Avatar
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    In my honest opinion, it's perspectives of people like you which only enforce the "cop vs. civilian" attitude many people and cops, alike, have. If citizens worked better together with cops and vice-versa, I think we'd find our society much better off.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    In my honest opinion, it's perspectives of people like you which only enforce the "cop vs. civilian" attitude many people and cops, alike, have. If citizens worked better together with cops and vice-versa, I think we'd find our society much better off.
    If the cop was in the wrong I do not see addressing it as being us against them. I see it as something that needs correcting. After reading the entire thread I found a couple of items that need to be looked at. Call it a training aid if you like.

    Michael

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silo View Post
    In my honest opinion, it's perspectives of people like you which only enforce the "cop vs. civilian" attitude many people and cops, alike, have. If citizens worked better together with cops and vice-versa, I think we'd find our society much better off.
    in my honest opinion, cops need to be reminded that they are civilians as well. if LEOs remember that little fact, we'd find our society much better off.

    it's been my experience that some LEOs feel the need to give you a lecture about any legal actions you might perticipating in, such as carrying a gun. i once had an officer freak out when he looked at my 1911, in cocked and locked mode. he exclaimed how dangerous that was for all deh childrens walking around. i wonder what makes them such experts in gun safety, when many police departments only require their officers to qualify once or twice a year.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Take one incident, add water and stir. Simple solution, call the supervisor and make a complaint (and follow it up). You get people like this in all walks of life, they go to far in everything. This one just happened to be an LEO, oh well, handle it like any other problem, make a complaint.

    I've been thinking about this, I don't think this is a LEO bashing situation either, we are talking about one specific situation and a lot of times, people don't always use the words some or not all to explain what they are talking about, it's up to the everyone to read it and not dig so deep that it means everyone or all. Just my 50 cents (inflation dang it).
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  6. #6
    Ex Member Array JCooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    in my honest opinion, cops need to be reminded that they are civilians as well. if LEOs remember that little fact, we'd find our society much better off.
    +1

  7. #7
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    If citizens worked better together with cops and vice-versa, I think we'd find our society much better off.
    When I interact W/ a cop there is a huge disparity of force in the cops favor, The cop has the gun ( or at least he gets to keep his), the cuffs , the tazer and the everpresent " Regardless of what happens to this peon I'm dealling W/ I'm going home tonight" attitude.

    On my side I have my wits and my knowledge of my rights ( neither of which will really do a whole lot to protect me from a powerhungry/bad cop). Therefore it behooves me to take every legal step I can to protect myself

  8. #8
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    Some (too many) LEOs develop the attitude that "I am the law," which they are not, only the enforcers of the law. When there's a problem with any LEO, it needs to be reported so that they can be retrained or re-employed.

    But attitude goes both ways, and like any conflict, if one side doesn't show up, the conflict usually doesn't happen. Kind of that "It takes two to tango" thing.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Some (too many) LEOs develop the attitude that "I am the law," which they are not, only the enforcers of the law. When there's a problem with any LEO, it needs to be reported so that they can be retrained or re-employed.

    But attitude goes both ways, and like any conflict, if one side doesn't show up, the conflict usually doesn't happen. Kind of that "It takes two to tango" thing.
    Agreed; especially the first part; far to many think that the LEO made the law, enforces the law and takes it personal when you do not like or follow said law. If you don't like it, change it; then it won't be enforced.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #10
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Old Vet said But attitude goes both ways, and like any conflict, if one side doesn't show up, the conflict usually doesn't happen. Kind of that "It takes two to tango" thing.
    Unfourtunately many people feel here that anything short of absolute compliance is "attitude".

    If a police officer stops you he holds all the cards. He knows why he stopped you. He knows what he suspects you of. And he is under no obligation to share any of that information W/you.

    This is a perfect time to calmly and firmly assert your rights

    if I were stopped on the street and questioned by a police officer the very first words out of my mouth would be "Officer am I free to leave." This question establishes the status of the contact immediately, and tells you exactly how to proceed. If you are told you are free to go do so immediately, Thank you officer have a good day. Do not say another word.

    If the officer tells you, you are not free to go you can rest assured that he suspects you of something and is looking for probable cause to make an arrest. This also establishes the contact as official, I would hand him my ID & CHP immediately (you’re not sitting in a car he's going to pat you down)

    If you are being detained the less you say the better, if the officer has probable cause he's going to arrest you no matter what you say. If he doesn't have PC the easiest way for him to get it is for you to open your mouth. If asked where my weapon is I would answer directly and refuse comment on all other questions. "Officer I do not wish to make a statement or answer questions without my lawyer present" He can't keep you there forever & if he had PC you'd already be in handcuffs. No matter what he asks you (exception questions directly related to where your firearm is) ask to speak to your lawyer before answering the question.

  11. #11
    Member Array 2ndAmend's Avatar
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    I have stated in other post that I believe most LEOs are good, down to earth people. Treo I too defend my rights as an American however just like the military is doing every day over seas LEOs are doing their job every day to protect the rights that you have. It seems a bit ludicrous and immature to have the mindset that everyone’s out to get you and only you.

    In the last couple of days I have read over a dozen posts by you being a "cop basher" its not that we automatically jump to that conclusion, you really do bash cops and try to put them in a bad light. I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is a public forum with a number of LEOs that are being bashed whenever you post on a thread about an LEO stop.

    Please don’t take this as a personal attack just an observation of what I see and what many others can see.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I've informed several times,all the TX LEO's said ok thanks I'll be with you in a minute,I've never been disarmed or had any shocked reactions,when you live in a state where it is legal to carry a concealed handgun in your vehicle without a license,The cops approach every situation like there is a gun in the car,I turn on interior lights turn off engine roll down drivers window and place my hands on top of steering wheel,once he makes contact I follow his instructions.Down here they ask a lot of questions sometimes,I live 20 miles from Mexico and they get huge loads of drugs daily,they think your being evasive and they will call a canine unit
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  13. #13
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    2ndamend said It seems a bit ludicrous and immature to have the mindset that everyone’s out to get you and only you.
    Who said that everyone's out to get me and only me?

    Do you assume all guns are out to kill you and only you when you observe Rule 1?

    When I was 11 I had a Stupidity Driven Discharge ( I don't believe in NDs) Since that day I have been absolutely annal about rule one All Guns are loaded period.
    Funny, no one thinks that's paranoid or that I'm over reacting to one bad experience

    It appears to me that the thing that most people here do not grasp is that bad cops (or good cops under a false presumption) don't wear "Bad Cop" signs .

    To parphrase USSC Justice Robert H. Jackson, one of the most respected legal minds of our time, The purpose of the fith amendmend is to protect the innocent against unwarranted prosecution. That's not the exact quote but it's pretty close.

    This is the same guy that said "Any Lawyer worth his salt, will tell the suspect in no uncertain terms to make no statement to the police under any circumstance." and that is a direct quote.

    Do you suppose that Justice Jackson felt that all cops where out to get only him?
    Last edited by Treo; January 28th, 2010 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Added Paragraph

  14. #14
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    dukalmighty said I live 20 miles from Mexico and they get huge loads of drugs daily,they think your being evasive and they will call a canine unit
    Can't think of a better reason to be very careful what I say to a cop

    Let me posit this to you Duke

    When the Police down there 20 mile from Mexico decide to search a car for drugs and the tear it apart and find nothing (because I'm sure it happens) do they put it back together? Do they compensate the motorist for their time?

    Does refusal to answer questions meet the legal criteria for probable cause?

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    gezzz, why the adversarial attitude??? Back in August I low sided my GL1800 on the left side I only had a t-shirt on so I got a nasty roadrash on my left shoulder. When the 'bambulance showed up the EMT's asked if I would remove my shirt so they could bandage my shoulder. I said I could not because I'm carrying a firearm. Without batting an eye the EMT said "ok, get in the back of the bus (for some reason these EMT's refer to there vehicle as a "bus") and take it off in there. Which I did.

    A Nice Sheriff showed up and from the back of the bus I handed him my Divers License and my CCP and I said I'm carrying the Ruger. he looked at my CCP, handed it back and said "do you still have your gun or do I have to go looking through that nice ladies front lawn for a gun "

    I said, "no I still have it, thats the second thing I checked after making sure my wife was not hurt"

    He said "Okay, i'll be right back." and he went off to talk with TBB (Throttle Boss Barb~~~Ya, she failed that day )

    He came back a few minutes later and said "you ok to drive home or do you want me to call a hook? I said I'll drive home no problem, sorry to cause al these problems.

    He said have a nice day??


    Back in November I was goiung up north to hunt and got pulled over on the thruway for speeding (80 in a 65 ) The nice NYS Trooper saw all the camping and hunting gear in the back of my wifes Forrester and asked were I was going.

    I said Hunting up near Alexandria Bay

    He asked do you have any weapons on you

    I said sure, would you like to see me permit. he said yes, I handed him my permit and said I have the Glock on my right hip and the S&W 44 mag in a case in the backpack and the rifle case has a 12 ga and a 30-30 in it.

    he handed the permit back and said "thats a great area to hunt, be right back with your ticket (rats)

    both encounters were a BIG FAT ZERO, no problem at all?
    HAPPY NEW YEAR
    INFIDELS

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