January 29th, 2010 07:32 AM
kelcarry, there are states that require no shooting qualification to carry a firearm. In Virginia you can take a Hunter Safety Course in which you do not even handle a firearm, and you meet the training requirement for CHP.
I believe that one of the arguments against a marksmanship test is that the state could make it so difficult to pass that few if any could meet it. Sort of like the old laws that prevented blacks from voting.
People have to take responsibility for their actions. If they don't they will be held responsible at some point. The parent comment was geared towards, anyone can procreate. Yes, the state can take away the children after the parents fail, and the state can take away your CHP, after you fail. It is up to you to take responsibility and seek out training.
Janq, the eye closing thing is very rare, but there are people who cannot close only one eye. However, a shooter should keep both eyes open. There are numerous reasons for this. Loss of depth perception, loss of peripheral vision for other threats/targets and it also changes your point of aim for the open eye. More critical in rifle shooting, but it still applies.
Procrastinators are the leaders of tomorrow.
January 29th, 2010 07:54 AM
there are alot of folks out there who carry because "it's cool"...and many do not realize that they have the power of life and death...conceal carry is a deadly serious matter, treat it as such and so you need instruction and training with constant practice. It's scary out there, with BGs and untrained wannabes.
January 29th, 2010 08:02 AM
Janq also hints at one of my dilemas; Our public shooting range is the most dangerous place I go. Poor muzzle discipline seems to be the rule of the day. Everything from giggling girlfriends waving the gun around (so that you can actually see the red dot race around the room ), to what appear to be mature shooters who lay the loaded weapon down with the muzzle aimed directly at the person on the other side of the stall.
Also, like Janq, I also pick the stall next to the wall (or none at all) just to reduce the odds of getting shot. Unfortunately, there just aren't many other options in my area. I still shoot there, as my alternative is snap caps and shouting 'bang!'. I do loathe it, though.
'Clinging to my guns and religion
January 29th, 2010 08:10 AM
Hubby and I go to the range at least once a week. On weekends it's usually busy and full. When we get out lane assignments, I go to the lanes, set down the guns and range bag and walk the line to check what the other shooters are doing. Usually the range officer is present, if not he and the other employees are watching on one of the monitors in the store area. If I so much as smell something that's not right I will speak with the shooter and remind them of the safety rules of the range. When they see that on a monitor they are right behind that shooter, and they don't give second warnings. If they see me speaking to another shooter, they ask if there was a problem, and let them know if I was helping the shooter or reminding them of the rules. If it's a reminder, they get shown the door if they need to be reminded again. The owner has thanked me several times for keeping my eyes open and even brought out an extra box of ammo for my "help".
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
January 29th, 2010 08:13 AM
It is easy to make fun of these type people. But 1. It sounds like this individual has a real vision concern and likely needs medical attention. and 2. Has no real experience and training in firearm useage and training.
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
Think to your own past, likely there was someone, a person or organization, who gave you a basis of firearm training. Many people do not have this at all.
This guy sounds like your average guy, plus a vision impairment, that all he knows is what he has seen on tv. Maybe after talking with the OP, he will seek out some training.
January 29th, 2010 08:14 AM
Here in Ohio you do have to qualify. If you can't hit a target 7 yards away then you don't pass the class and you don't get a CWP.
No kidding when my mother qualified for live fire on the CWP class her first shot was a groin shot.... we made fun saying she did that on purpose... she is a much much better shot now (still don't know if she did that on purpose)
Janq have you ever thought of becoming a RSO? I think more ranges need people like you.
January 29th, 2010 08:31 AM
Sounds like you did the right thing helping this fella out, hopefully he'll take your advice and seek a instructor/class that will make him more qualified. But that is a lil'scary to think about.
Glock 27,Hi-Point .380, S&W 3913, RIA 5" Tactical
"Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem." - President Ronald Reagan
January 29th, 2010 08:43 AM
You did great,Hope he gets some training ASAP ;-)
A Native Floridian = RARE
IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
January 29th, 2010 09:02 AM
+1...That kinda says everything I was thinking. Although we all started sometime/somewhere as novice and inexperienced firearm owners, most of us sought out and/or received minimal training or more to get us started and we all have built upon it from there (hopefully). Perhaps this person is one of those who never had the opportunity to receive instruction and doesn't have either the know how or the ambition to go after it, perhaps because of vision problems, learning ability, ego or whatever reason. At least he was receptive and has now been given the opportunity to learn, simply because someone took the time to offer. I applaud you.
Originally Posted by BugDude
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
January 29th, 2010 09:29 AM
You said it perfectly, Janq. Unfortunately the way that the CCH permit classes are set up, at least here, pretty much as long as you hit the giant blue silhouette and don't shoot the instructor, and pass an open-book test, you qualify.
The reason I chose the company I now work for to get my training is because they are FANATICAL about safety and teaching proper technique, and will pull new shooters off the line to teach them before qualifying, even if it means we as instructors have to stay an extra few hours.
I can not abide the folks who half-*** the training, (Note to mods, I used stars instead of the a-word, please don't think I got caught by the filter) or folks who feel that they are essentially one-class-and-done.
We recently took an ex-agent from one of those 3-letter agencies to the range and had to teach this person from the ground up. Stance, grip, sight alignment, trigger control, you name it.
There is a local LEO here who when in BLET had a FTF during a live-fire exercise. Rather than tap-and-rack, this person LOOKED DOWN THE BARREL! And still passed, and is active LE today. That scares me.
You can't imagine how happy & relieved it makes me, both as a relatively still-new shooter but also as an instructor, to hear that people like you are out there, being diligent and passing that on. I also applaud you. LOUDLY, my friend.
Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.
Sig Sauer P239 DAK (9mm)
NRA Member & Pistol Instructor
January 29th, 2010 09:49 AM
Excellent post Janq, and good advice for all.
January 29th, 2010 10:20 AM
Thanks for the post Janq. I learned from it. Many things.
FYI to the poster who commented on ccw training requirements, Washington State, for one, requires absolutely no training either in the classroom or on the range. I have one in my wallet to prove it. You fill out the app, give them money and fingerprints. No photo on it either.
(Even though I did not need to show proof of training for the permit, I took an 8 hr class in a neighboring state that required classroom and range time, plus some additional courses)
My newbie-esque opinion is that states are doing a great disservice not only to other innocent bystanders but to the people they are issuing to. Not only in the mechanics of shooting but in the legal responsibilities and criteria that must be met before using deadly force in an appropriate way (ie. to keep you out of jail and have you spend the least amount of $$ on attorney fees). Every class I have taken has one or two horror stories about criminal or civil suits against shooters.
January 29th, 2010 10:24 AM
Originally Posted by Mobius
Closing one eye feels spasmodic to me.
And truly, if one finds him/herself in a situation where the gun comes
into play, believe me when I say that both eyes will be WIDE OPEN!
I defy anyone who says that they will take the time to squint, line up
up a correct sight picture and squeeeeeze the trigger.
Point shooting is your friend.
Jang ~ excellent AAR. Glad there's people like you out there.
"We must remember that one man is much
the same as another, and that he is best
who is trained in the severest school."
~Thucydides, History of the Peloponnesian War
January 29th, 2010 10:40 AM
well played janq...you are a unique individual not only in discipline but in commitment to making peoples lives better with your actions and your posts...
i am fortunate to use a public range that is well patrolled and monitored in my opinion...it keeps things safe for everyone involved and gives me the opportunity to relax somewhat while i enjoy one of my favorite pastimes...
i always take a step back and watch other shooters for multiple reasons...it gives me an opportunity to learn from them and in the event i have a helpful hint they dont mind me sharing i will share it with them also...in some instances i have met very friendly people and have fired firearms a may not have and allowed them to try my own if i felt comfortable with it...one day at the range i took some kids under my wing who were firing large caliber handguns with their family and with their parents permission they were aloowed to enjoy my .22 handgun and rifle...it was a thrill for all of us...
as far as shooting with both eyes....i grew up on skeet and trap ranges and was taught by several old timers that method of shooting...with practice it is very effective and opens your sight to much more...especially when things are moving fast...i was never overly comfortable with it but still revisit it from time to time as i see advantages in possible self defense situations....
thanks for sharing...your posts regardless of length always intrigue me and i look forward to them...
January 29th, 2010 11:02 AM
Great post Janq.
I always enjoy reading your posts, you are thorough and eloquent.
I am glad there are some out there who will approach those in need of help, and give REALLY GOOD help.
I don't agree about shooting with one eye closed. I shoot both open, as (I think Matt Larsen) said, it limits peripheral vision, and depth perception.
Keep up the good work/instruction.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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