January 29th, 2010 02:47 PM
Who gets to set the standard?
I want people to be trained to a higher level than currently required if they are going to carry a gun in public around my loved ones.
What are you going to do when the antis set the bar so high Carlos Hathcock couldn't qualify?
January 29th, 2010 02:48 PM
Ditto in WA.
Originally Posted by Old Marine
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters.
January 29th, 2010 02:49 PM
I love living in the country and being able to shoot at my own range in my backyard by myself.
Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.
January 29th, 2010 02:50 PM
I too have not seen data, and I've looked for it, that indicates untrained civilians in specific are more functionally dangerous shot to shot fired as that of trained persons.
But still it does seem like common sense would dictate this to be a truth...Though I have learned better than to go down the 'common sense' road of assumptive thinking especially considering common sense is not common.
Without data and stats though if we all as citizens challenged ourselves, as individuals and as being a friend to a fellow shooter, to become and maintain a certain degree of proficiency then we all win.
Not to say I personally am akin to Jerry Miculek or some other manner of super awesome handgunner, because I am not.
But I don't suck either...As per other peoples view & report, not just my own opinion/rating of myself.
Highest level of degree function and proficiency is not necessary though.
One very much can be a middle of the road shooter, and still be functionally safe and proficient.
The road is very wide. The man I saw though was operating in the emergency lane to the edge among the weeds.
It's the new shooters and/or those who over estimate their ability that we the rest of us who are not same might lend a hand to.
Help those folk out to a year of five later become one among us, and in turn they will hopefully be motivated to do same for another as behind them.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 29th, 2010 02:51 PM
No problem in Ohio, keeping guns inside your house or home. CCW is for those folks who willingly, if not eagerly, accept the heavy responsibility of carrying and concealing them in public, which is far more dangerous. Our CCW instructors emphasized these responsibilities with the concequences, like stories seen in these gun magazines. Now, I drive away with a gun inside my car.
January 29th, 2010 02:52 PM
Janq was attempting to find out what this gentlemans dominant eye was, thus he tried to get the gentleman to close one eye so dominance could be determined.
I don't think Janq was advocating shooting with one eye closed as a matter of course.
Good post Janq!
Walther P99 AS full size 9mm
Kahr P9 compact 9mm
Michigan Sheriff's Association
“The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall
January 29th, 2010 02:56 PM
Don"t let stupid be your skill set....
Never be ashamed of a scar. It simply means, that you were stronger than whatever tried to hurt you......
January 29th, 2010 03:25 PM
I practiced for years to keep both eye open, but I can close them when I want to.
Definitely something wrong there.
Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
"For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield
January 29th, 2010 05:09 PM
AGREE! That just about covers it and the Hoplophobic's will surely take it there!
Originally Posted by Treo
Who is John Galt?
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...
January 29th, 2010 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by kelcarry
Coincidentally, there was an incident of negligent discharge at a crowded Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant here in my city last week. A new concealed carry permit holder wanted to show off his new weapon to his friends in the restaurant. Apparently, he went to clear his weapon (in a crowded restaurant), the firearm discharged, and THREE people were hurt by the bullet fragments.
January 29th, 2010 11:10 PM
The other day the police were knocking on my Mother-In-Law's door looking for my niece's boyfriend. Disclaimer - My family and I, and my In-Law's live in nice, upscale neighborhoods and have NEVER experienced this kind of thing. Apparently, the little dirtbag has some warrants and my niece gave the bail bonds people my In-Law's address.
Anyway, the police showed up ready for something and asked "Where's Isaac?" (even typing his name grosses me out). I explained he's never even been here and promptly told them I was armed and handed them my CHL. I lifted my shirt and the one officer, maybe in his 40's, removed it while we spoke.
He took my 1911 and tried to remove the round in the chamber. he was messing with the safety and pushed on the hammer while his finger was on the trigger. At that point, his partner and I both yelled "Don't do that!". He then swept us both with the muzzle. His partner grabbed it, removed the mag and dumped the round. He handed it to my wife and she put it inside on the counter. It was all cleared up right away and they stayed another 45 minutes talking about guns, etc.
They're both going to an IDPA match in two weeks with me. The one who originally had my gun told me about how he killed a man with a shotgun and he had a little Kel-Tec in his pocket. They were great guys, but it just goes to show you never know another man's experience.
At our indoor range, we can draw if we'd like, etc. It's no where near like the one's often referred to on her. There's never been one single accident.
At our outdoor gun club, we can set up targets in one of numerous different areas and practice IDPA / IPSC courses whenever we'd like. Again, not a single accident.
If the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn, that's really not my problem. I may offer some help, but that would be for his benefit, not mine. If he doesn't break any safety rules, I'm not judging him in any way.
The ones that bother me are the overly confident that are eyes-on everyone else, judging what they do and the ones that are obviously nervous when handling a weapon. The ones that are skittish when reloading or confused when working the slide.
If the guy can't shoot to save his life, I'm not TOO concerned about him carrying. Chances are, he'll never need it in public, but if he does, there's a good chance it'll be within a few feet. **Heck, cops only land 20 to 40% of their rounds. I don't know about anyone else here, but I have failed to find ONE single instance where a license holder shot in self defense and accidentally shot an innocent bystander - this doesn't include accidental/negligent discharges (those have nothing to do with how accurate you are at the range. I've heard of bystanders being hit numerous times by bad guys though.
Regardless, I do think if we take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm, we should learn how to use it safely and proficiently.
Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe
January 30th, 2010 12:07 AM
This happened to me at the range last Saturday. A guy was flashing his muzzle at people.
Originally Posted by Beans
I stopped him and I physically moved his arm so it was pointing down range.
I told him that he could have taken out two people with one bullet!
He said "Oh. Sorry".
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. — Winston Churchill
January 30th, 2010 09:04 AM
Interesting post...you were willing to assist, and he was willing to listen. The 'new' shooter was at least taking baby steps to learn, and perhaps he WILL get some training.
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
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January 30th, 2010 09:32 AM
These stories make me realize how fortunate I am to have my own range at home. How do you guys deal with this?
January 30th, 2010 10:11 AM
Points for the 'trainee' for accepting Janq's help: he sounds teachable and not ego-heavy. Sure, he needs help - but his behavior under constructive criticism suggests that he's far more likely than most to seek it out and profit from it.
Janq, I want to be like you when I grow up.
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