A personal request as to those who carry... - Page 4

A personal request as to those who carry...

This is a discussion on A personal request as to those who carry... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I want people to be trained to a higher level than currently required if they are going to carry a gun in public around my ...

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Thread: A personal request as to those who carry...

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    I want people to be trained to a higher level than currently required if they are going to carry a gun in public around my loved ones.
    Who gets to set the standard?

    What are you going to do when the antis set the bar so high Carlos Hathcock couldn't qualify?

  2. #47
    Senior Member Array RemMod597's Avatar
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    Sep 2008
    Snohomish County, WA
    Quote Originally Posted by Old Marine View Post
    In Ms. all you need to get your cc. permit is the required fee and be able to pass the background check....Period!
    Ditto in WA.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Dec 2009
    Northern Vermont
    I love living in the country and being able to shoot at my own range in my backyard by myself.
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Nov 2005
    Agreed 9MM.

    I too have not seen data, and I've looked for it, that indicates untrained civilians in specific are more functionally dangerous shot to shot fired as that of trained persons.

    But still it does seem like common sense would dictate this to be a truth...Though I have learned better than to go down the 'common sense' road of assumptive thinking especially considering common sense is not common.

    Without data and stats though if we all as citizens challenged ourselves, as individuals and as being a friend to a fellow shooter, to become and maintain a certain degree of proficiency then we all win.

    Not to say I personally am akin to Jerry Miculek or some other manner of super awesome handgunner, because I am not.
    But I don't suck either...As per other peoples view & report, not just my own opinion/rating of myself.

    Highest level of degree function and proficiency is not necessary though.
    One very much can be a middle of the road shooter, and still be functionally safe and proficient.
    The road is very wide. The man I saw though was operating in the emergency lane to the edge among the weeds.

    It's the new shooters and/or those who over estimate their ability that we the rest of us who are not same might lend a hand to.
    Help those folk out to a year of five later become one among us, and in turn they will hopefully be motivated to do same for another as behind them.

    Rinse, reload...Repeat.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  6. #50
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    West Carrollton, Ohio
    No problem in Ohio, keeping guns inside your house or home. CCW is for those folks who willingly, if not eagerly, accept the heavy responsibility of carrying and concealing them in public, which is far more dangerous. Our CCW instructors emphasized these responsibilities with the concequences, like stories seen in these gun magazines. Now, I drive away with a gun inside my car.

  7. #51
    Member Array mel5051's Avatar
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    Dec 2009
    Commerce Township, Michigan
    Janq was attempting to find out what this gentlemans dominant eye was, thus he tried to get the gentleman to close one eye so dominance could be determined.
    I don't think Janq was advocating shooting with one eye closed as a matter of course.

    Good post Janq!
    Walther P99 AS full size 9mm
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    Michigan Sheriff's Association
    “The key is to hit them hard, hit them fast, and hit them repeatedly. The one shot stop is a unit of measurement not a tactical philosophy.” Evan Marshall

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Jun 2009
    Lansing Mi
    Thanks for sharing....
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

    And Shepards we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee,
    Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, So that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command,
    And we shall flow a river forth to Thee, And teeming with souls shall it ever be,

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    Hiding inside a bottle of Jim Beam Black in S. FL.
    I practiced for years to keep both eye open, but I can close them when I want to.
    Definitely something wrong there.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    East TN
    Quote Originally Posted by Treo View Post
    Who gets to set the standard?

    What are you going to do when the antis set the bar so high Carlos Hathcock couldn't qualify?
    AGREE! That just about covers it and the Hoplophobic's will surely take it there!
    Who is John Galt?

    Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...

    When political power is up for grabs, personal liberty is usually one of the first casualties…

  11. #55
    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
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    Jul 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey Y'all: Read all your comments and many still wonder why there is a controversy over certain issues that the 2nd Amendment brings about. As I wrote in my previous reply, the Amendment was written at a totally different time then current urban America. People needed and used their guns and knew how to use them--it meant everyday life and death and food on the table. I'm sorry if you disagree with me, but the firearm of today is not for everyday life and death and food on the table in the same context as 1776. If you can buy a gun with absolutely no training and not even a hint as to what you are doing with it other than having it, something is wrong. For states to ignore the person and only be concerned with the registration and fee, something is wrong. For states to just issue a CCWP because you can walk and talk and pay your fee, something is wrong. Someone replied that we each must accept responsibility; tell that to the family whose father gets shot when this inept gun owner at the range begins blasting and missing during a scenario---it is plain ridiculous that this guy can be walking around armed and hasn't a clue how to fire the gun or even hit something. Even worse are the people who buy guns and do not even bother to go to a range or obtain experienced assistance and training. I tend to believe that based on your attention to this forum, those who read this forum and my rant are not in that category and somehow find at least a portion of my argument to be creditable and disturbing. Up til about 2 years ago I had never handled or even touched a gun in my 68 years. I now have 5 firearms from 22 to 380 to 38 to shotgun and have sought out all sorts of help to be sure I know what I am doing from gun safety to gun use and make sure I am fully informed about SC laws and regulations before I do anything. I would think that all of us would at least expect everyone else to be proficient and not just be a gun owner because they can be. Just sayin. Really hope you can all agree with the "tone" of my message. I do, however, understand the argument that once the "government" gets into this in more detail, they can easily make it impossible to even stand a chance to "participate" in your 2nd Amendment rights.
    Well said.

    Coincidentally, there was an incident of negligent discharge at a crowded Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant here in my city last week. A new concealed carry permit holder wanted to show off his new weapon to his friends in the restaurant. Apparently, he went to clear his weapon (in a crowded restaurant), the firearm discharged, and THREE people were hurt by the bullet fragments.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Dec 2008
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    The other day the police were knocking on my Mother-In-Law's door looking for my niece's boyfriend. Disclaimer - My family and I, and my In-Law's live in nice, upscale neighborhoods and have NEVER experienced this kind of thing. Apparently, the little dirtbag has some warrants and my niece gave the bail bonds people my In-Law's address.

    Anyway, the police showed up ready for something and asked "Where's Isaac?" (even typing his name grosses me out). I explained he's never even been here and promptly told them I was armed and handed them my CHL. I lifted my shirt and the one officer, maybe in his 40's, removed it while we spoke.

    He took my 1911 and tried to remove the round in the chamber. he was messing with the safety and pushed on the hammer while his finger was on the trigger. At that point, his partner and I both yelled "Don't do that!". He then swept us both with the muzzle. His partner grabbed it, removed the mag and dumped the round. He handed it to my wife and she put it inside on the counter. It was all cleared up right away and they stayed another 45 minutes talking about guns, etc.

    They're both going to an IDPA match in two weeks with me. The one who originally had my gun told me about how he killed a man with a shotgun and he had a little Kel-Tec in his pocket. They were great guys, but it just goes to show you never know another man's experience.

    At our indoor range, we can draw if we'd like, etc. It's no where near like the one's often referred to on her. There's never been one single accident.

    At our outdoor gun club, we can set up targets in one of numerous different areas and practice IDPA / IPSC courses whenever we'd like. Again, not a single accident.

    If the guy can't hit the broad side of a barn, that's really not my problem. I may offer some help, but that would be for his benefit, not mine. If he doesn't break any safety rules, I'm not judging him in any way.

    The ones that bother me are the overly confident that are eyes-on everyone else, judging what they do and the ones that are obviously nervous when handling a weapon. The ones that are skittish when reloading or confused when working the slide.

    If the guy can't shoot to save his life, I'm not TOO concerned about him carrying. Chances are, he'll never need it in public, but if he does, there's a good chance it'll be within a few feet. **Heck, cops only land 20 to 40% of their rounds. I don't know about anyone else here, but I have failed to find ONE single instance where a license holder shot in self defense and accidentally shot an innocent bystander - this doesn't include accidental/negligent discharges (those have nothing to do with how accurate you are at the range. I've heard of bystanders being hit numerous times by bad guys though.

    Regardless, I do think if we take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm, we should learn how to use it safely and proficiently.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #57
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    La La Land
    Quote Originally Posted by Beans View Post
    I finally went over to them and stated "If I have to tell you to keep the muzzle pointed down range one more time, I will ask you to leave the range area".
    This happened to me at the range last Saturday. A guy was flashing his muzzle at people.

    I stopped him and I physically moved his arm so it was pointing down range.

    I told him that he could have taken out two people with one bullet!

    He said "Oh. Sorry".

    Very scary.

  14. #58
    Senior Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
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    Jul 2006
    Central Florida
    Interesting post...you were willing to assist, and he was willing to listen. The 'new' shooter was at least taking baby steps to learn, and perhaps he WILL get some training.
    Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”

    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member

  15. #59
    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    Jan 2008
    These stories make me realize how fortunate I am to have my own range at home. How do you guys deal with this?

    CP Lincoln

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    Points for the 'trainee' for accepting Janq's help: he sounds teachable and not ego-heavy. Sure, he needs help - but his behavior under constructive criticism suggests that he's far more likely than most to seek it out and profit from it.

    Janq, I want to be like you when I grow up.
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

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