A personal request as to those who carry... - Page 9

A personal request as to those who carry...

This is a discussion on A personal request as to those who carry... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; "This gentleman would require a BG to be standing literally in front of him as in order to score any hits. Beyond that the safest ...

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Thread: A personal request as to those who carry...

  1. #121
    Senior Member Array xsigma40cal's Avatar
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    "This gentleman would require a BG to be standing literally in front of him as in order to score any hits.
    Beyond that the safest place with him is to stand directly along his center line and as within a 25 to 30 degree arc of that left or right."

    Kinda like the "Legend of Bagger Vance".
    That's gotta be heartbreaking. Ive been a shooter most my life and couldnt bear to imagine someone coming up to me and saying in a profesional tone, "you suck somethin' awful son."
    Sounds like the guy is into a medical condition of some sort so I dont blame him entirely. Theres a difference between being awful at something and refusing to get help for it.


  2. #122
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    You want a standard?!
    Well if you can't shoot one handed a snubbie 6 shot 44 magnum revolver 3 double taps grouping 2" at 100 yards then you fail....




  3. #123
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    You want a standard?!
    Well if you can't shoot one handed a snubbie 6 shot 44 magnum revolver 3 double taps grouping 2" at 100 yards then you fail....
    !

    - Bob Munden
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  4. #124
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    Just because folks are bad shots doesn't mean they are irresponsible enough to go around shooting innocents in the street.
    Be advised. My last post on this subject in this thread. I refuse to hijack Janqs thread any further and allow it to turn into a peepee match.

    The best shot in the world can end up in a wrongful death lawsuit. If the guy is as bad a shot as Janq said (and I have no doubt that the man can make a solid judgment call) what do ya think the odds would be for that dude, and others like him. Besides, you make it sound like you'd have to be right there to feel the impact or be in any danger. A stray bullet can travel quite a ways and still cause serious injury or death. Just recently a young man was arrested in Atlanta for killing a beautiful young college student with a stray bullet. She was shot in the back while walking to class I think it said. He said he was being assaulted and that's why he was shooting back. Regardless the young lady will never see the light of day again, someone's responsible cause it damn sure wasn't natural causes. I feel for the young man as well, but at the end of the day he's still living and breathing and she's not. I think I'm done here. If you disagree with my take on all this I'm okay with that and I mean no disrespect toward yourself for a difference of opinion. Cheers to ya.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  5. #125
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    More and more people are getting CHLs all across the country. You'd think that with the limited training these state laws require, more and more people like in the OP are getting CHLs as well. Probably a lot of us that have taken a CHL class with 20 or so people stood next to a guy like this on the shooting line. Lots of stories abound. Now let's look at the conclusion that these people shouldn't carry a firearm and compare all this discussion to this Brady Campaign position statement.


    POSITION: The Brady Campaign opposes state laws or a national law pushed by the gun lobby to force law enforcement to allow virtually anyone to carry loaded hidden handguns in public.


    PROBLEM: Law enforcement officials in thirty-four states are forced to issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun even if they have misgivings about the person’s ability to be responsible with it in public.

    In these states, law enforcement must issue permits to carry concealed handguns to anyone who meets certain minimum legal standards. This type of law is known as a “shall-issue” law because the police are told they shall issue the permit. Law enforcement has no discretion as to who gets these permits and how many permits are issued. The intent of “shall-issue” laws is to strip local law enforcement officials of their discretion in issuing concealed handgun permits in their jurisdictions. This means that more people with problems are carrying loaded hidden handguns in public, including in densely populated cities.

    THREAT: Allowing untrained, under-trained, and/or emotionally unstable or impulsive persons to carry loaded hidden handguns in public puts people at risk of being killed or injured, intentionally and unintentionally. It also makes it harder for law enforcement to identify the real perpetrators during a shooting. Allowing more people to carry concealed handguns in densely populated cities, on crowded subways, on buses and in sports stadiums, is a recipe for disaster.

    URGENCY: There is no federal law on prohibiting carrying concealed handguns outside of federal property. Thirty-five states have “shall-issue” laws forcing police to issue concealed handgun permits. Eleven states have “may-issue” laws that give local law enforcement officials discretion over who gets a concealed handgun permit and how many are allowed in each jurisdiction. Two states, Wisconsin and Illinois, do not require a permit to carry concealed handguns in public while two states forbid the carrying of concealed handguns.

    SOLUTION: “May issue” states and states that do not allow the carrying of concealed guns should work with law enforcement to retain current laws. Those in states with “shall issue” laws should work with their law enforcement officials to determine the best course of action in amending their laws. At the very minimum, law enforcement should have some discretion in permitting, and citizens applying for concealed handgun permits should be required to go through testing to ensure they know how to safely handle firearms and to show they know the gun laws in their state.

  6. #126
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    To help clarify my thinking on this hot topic, I ask one question.

    If driving a automobile was a right (I know it's not) and the gentleman in Jang's post was driving as badly as he was shooting, would you (dlduece) have a problem?

  7. #127
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    To help clarify my thinking on this hot topic, I ask one question.

    If driving a automobile was a right (I know it's not) and the gentleman in Jang's post was driving as badly as he was shooting, would you (dlduece) have a problem?

    No no. Carrying a gun in a holster is not the same as driving a car. A guy that can't keep a car between the white lines is a constant public danger. A guy that just carries the handgun in a holster is not. Despite all the continuous efforts at this analogy, guns and cars are not analogous.

  8. #128
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    No no. Carrying a gun in a holster is not the same as driving a car. A guy that can't keep a car between the white lines is a constant public danger. A guy that just carries the handgun in a holster is not. Despite all the continuous efforts at this analogy, guns and cars are not analogous.
    No I believe you don't want to make the analogy because it reflects poorly on your argument.

    According to you the car would have to remain in the garage. Just like the pistol remains in the holster.

  9. #129
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Let's apply all this discussion to another real life scenario in the news today. Let's substitute our OP incompetent into this story. Note that while the bad guys were preparing to rape the women and counting their bullets to see if they had enough to kill everyone, one of the girls was shot multiple times in the cross fire. Should this person have had access to a gun? It doesn't say, but hypothetically, perhaps he missed, and shot an innocent. Would it have turned out better if no one had access to a firearm?


    College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader - News Story - WSB Atlanta

    COLLEGE PARK, Ga. -- A group of college students said they are lucky to be alive and they’re thanking the quick-thinking of one of their own. Police said a fellow student shot and killed one of two masked me who burst into an apartment.

    Channel 2 Action News reporter Tom Jones met with one of the students to talk about the incident.

    “Apparently, his intent was to rape and murder us all,” said student Charles Bailey.

    TOM JONES: College Student Shoots, Kills Home Invader

    Bailey said he thought it was the end of his life and the lives of the 10 people inside his apartment for a birthday party after two masked men with guns burst in through a patio door.

    “They just came in and separated the men from the women and said, ‘Give me your wallets and cell phones,’” said George Williams of the College Park Police Department.

    Bailey said the gunmen started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.

    That’s when one student grabbed a gun out of a backpack and shot at the invader who was watching the men. The gunman ran out of the apartment.

    The student then ran to the room where the second gunman, identified by police as 23-year-old Calvin Lavant, was holding the women.

    “Apparently the guy was getting ready to rape his girlfriend. So he told the girls to get down and he started shooting. The guy jumped out of the window,” said Bailey.

    A neighbor heard the shots and heard someone running nearby.

    “And I heard someone say, ‘Someone help me. Call the police. Somebody call the police,’” said a neighbor.

    The neighbor said she believes it was Lavant, who was found dead near his apartment, only one building away.

    Bailey said he is just thankful one student risked his life to keep others alive.

    “I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.

    One female student was shot several times during the crossfire. She is expected to make a full recovery.

    Police said they are close to making the arrest of the second suspect.

  10. #130
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    According to you the car would have to remain in the garage. Just like the pistol remains in the holster.
    No, according to me, the public risk of a driver that can't keep his car between the white lines would be constant risk when he drives in public. The public risk of a poor shot is only a risk in the unlikely event that he takes his gun out of the holster and starts shooting it, and only then if he shoots it in the direction of bystanders.

  11. #131
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Car in garage- gun in holster.
    Driving the car- shooting the gun.
    Bad driver- bad shooter.

    So if driver is reckless when no one is around (bystanders) then that's O.K.?

  12. #132
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Car in garage- gun in holster.
    Driving the car- shooting the gun.
    Bad driver- bad shooter.

    So if driver is reckless when no one is around (bystanders) then that's O.K.?
    Here's an idea on how to fix your analogy. Your bad driver is a 16yr old who did pass his driver's license test, and he's going to park his car in the garage except for maybe a once in a lifetime crisis. Then no, I don't have a problem with him parking his car in the garage his whole life, driving only that one time where he or someone else is about to be killed by a scumbag.

  13. #133
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    Here's an idea on how to fix your analogy. Your bad driver is a 16yr old who did pass his driver's license test, and he's going to park his car in the garage except for maybe a once in a lifetime crisis. Then no, I don't have a problem with him parking his car in the garage his whole life, driving only that one time where he or someone else is about to be killed by a scumbag.
    No need to "fix" anything. This is just another example of you trying to turn things around to fit your ideals.

    But in the end you win,you've worn me down like some others. Doesn't mean you're right, I'm just tired.

  14. #134
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Update:

    I was back onsite today to train and the same RO who had been on deck as when the gentleman was on the range was working behind the front check-in desk today.

    Without me saying a word about it he stated to me upon seeing me walk in that he and the others working the main counter as well as the manager (who I'd corresponded with that night via e-mail) had talked about this dude after closing that day...And they noted same thoughts as I have reported in this thread.
    He is "dangerous". His words, not mine.
    To boot most of the employees are professional LEOs as either city police or county sherriff deputys, the manager being a weapons & tactics instructor for that countys sherrifs dept. and he is same for this facility where I regularly train.

    He indicated that they all are on the lookout for the guy to return so as to introduce him to a basic handgun class. Apparently he is not a regular nor a member and thus nobody knows who he is. He then thanked me for offering to spend time with him to which we then had a brief convo about personal responsibility as related to 2A rights and carry.

    For the naysayers and those who think I was/am just being judgmental, I assure you this was a case that was remarkable. I am not exaggerating nor being picky.
    Something to my mind akin to offering to a stranger to call a cab and cover the bill as in exchange for his agreement to not drive himself home upon it being obvious he is not in the moment skilled enough to accomplish the task with a reasonable degree of expectation toward success.
    Maybe under different and better circumstances he is akin to Mario Andretti...I don't know. But in the moment, very much not so much.

    Not to say that the gentleman should have his rights stripped/denied.
    That is not at all what I'd stated nor implied.

    Clearly though as based on demonstrated performance, he was at if not beyond the limit of his capability with that specific firearm and caliber as he walked in off the street wearing what was not within his ability to deploy with reasonable function.
    Reasonable defined as common man view of the matter, as seen direct by my and the ROs eyes.

    Anyway if I ever see the gentleman again I will attempt to reach out to him once more, in the most friendly of way I can muster, and try to point him in a better direction than where he was last week.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  15. #135
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Nice Janq. I'm also glad that the range staff wanted to encourage him, get him more training, rather than just straight up banning.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

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