This is a discussion on My wife is against me CCing. What do I do? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hm. Blackmail and ultimatums. Never a good thing, in a relationship. Almost certainly, it goes far, far deeper than merely over a metal-and-plastic object in ...
Hm. Blackmail and ultimatums. Never a good thing, in a relationship. Almost certainly, it goes far, far deeper than merely over a metal-and-plastic object in your hip. Getting to the root causes of that should be the goal, IMO. And that's something you won't get over the internet.
Ideally, you'll come to understand her fears and objections to firearms, and why your having them or carrying them is such a burden on the family.
Ideally, you'll come to understand where her resentment comes from, and what is really allowing her to obliterate an entire marriage and family.
Ideally, she'll come to appreciate that preparations for the well-being, safety and security of the family comes from love, and that the minor chance of risks due to having defensive capability inside the home are far outweighed by the benefits of having the capability. But, this might be a stretch. Hope for it, sure. But, whether you get this far will be largely up to her intelligence, her willingness to be open-minded (which is in serious question, right now), and her willingness to concede a legitimate point (that your preparations on behalf of the family come from love and concern, and that they're reasonable steps).
I'd suggest marriage counseling, if it's this deep and ugly. A weekend chat might well not fix much, if so.
This is a lesson for us all. If anyone doubts whether the anti-gunners are playing for keeps, consider this situation and how it plays for keeps. It's seemingly willing to destroy marriages, relationships, families over the point.
A yes, the hysterical reaction... also known as the "scream and sob". I'm familiar with that one (I'm trying to convince my fiancee to move to another area).
What do you do? That's a very personal question. Education and calm, rational, heart to heart discussions are obviously the key. However, trying to complete those steps with someone who is obviously going ballistic over something is a pretty steep challenge.
I agree with the others who have said in that the situation itself is perplexing. Given that she joined you at the range and was willing to participate in the entire thing (I assume without too much forcing from you?) makes it pretty odd that she was so opposed to actually carrying firearms.
Initially my fiancee wasn't thrilled with the idea of me carrying. At that point she'd never held nor fired a real weapon and was completely ignorant of how they function. That was only last summer, and now she has her own CWP and her own weapon is in the works.
Perceptions can change quickly after the "sticker shock" has worn off. The brain is, for most people, a rational decision making engine and I'd be surprised if your wife didn't eventually re-think her position. However, I think the only way you're going to have any real success is gradually easing her into the idea of everyday carry and let her get more and more comfortable with the idea and the practice. This is where a bit of education and training would be perfect. Perhaps take the NRA Basic Pistol course together. Have her take the concealed weapons permit course, even if she says she "never" intends to carry a gun. It's possible the exposure to the community will show here that carriers are not freelance cowboys.
Best of luck, please keep me updated of the progress you make.
"Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley
From a pastor, this issue seems to generate a lot of heat but not much light in your marriage. I would get back to counseling posthaste and continue to work on the bigger issues. CC will be a minor one.
And for the record, I would listen to Limatunes. And I would also read a book called "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman and apply.
"...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective
Bluffing, bribery, blubbering, blackmail and ultimatums...
None of those sound like the best of tactics for a mature, loving relationship. Not judging here, most of us have been there at some time or another. Live and learn...
Nathan, you've admitted there have been some issues in the past. You don't need to go into them with us on the forum, but I'd bet the farm they play into your wife's reaction.
First, sit down with her in a rational, non-confrontational discussion, ask her about her reaction the other day, and listen, listen, listen. As much as we all think we're right and our spouses are wrong, maybe she is seeing something you need to be aware of. Maybe. I obviously don't know. But, it is worth your time and growth to listen.
Second, treat her and her opinions with respect. She has feelings (you already know that), and they are her feelings, whatever has led to them being what they are. BTW, included in the "listen, listen, listen" part is "understand, understand, understand." You need to truly and honestly 'get' what is bothering her about this.
Third, calmly, rationally talk about what led you to your decision to want/need to carry. Calmly. Part of that, I am betting, is your desire to make sure you come home to her every night. Part of it is to make sure someone doesn't harm her or your children.
Fourth, this has to be about showing your love to her, not about getting your way. You can get your way. The question is how much damage will you do along that way? You've come this far in your life without carrying. Awhile longer will not likely end up badly.
Finally, which is more important to you at this moment: your wife or carrying? I know you want to do it because you care. But, it sounds like more groundwork needs to be laid first. It may be that you need to get back into counseling. But, showing her your maturity by some of the above stuff may help a great deal.
Just some thoughts on a lazy Saturday morning...
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
Well. If your wife knows you CC'ing, then you are not doing it right.
I think I went to same school as some of your wives here...then kaboom! we went to the range together and I wasn't happy that he shot in the same target that I did. I enrolled in an intro to handguns. I wasn't happy that the boys talked completely like rubbishy techno stuffs about guns. So in the end, we enrolled together in a class, was happy we did it together.
Maybe...just maybe, you should enroll in a gun course together, even if you already have your CCW. It is not really that expensive to do it again for you if it will keep the peace and her understanding why you carry without you forcing it down her throat. Just like driving...you will NOT teach your wife to drive because it is a recipe for disaster. My husband is also a flying instructor and he attempted to teach me how to fly my small plane. Damn feeling when you can't just open the door and walk out from up there, believe me!!! I can only asked him meekly to guide the plane down. Then he got me an instructor. As for guns and courses, it is the feeling of being "safe" from and with others of the same mind with her and being on the same level, not one above one another. Your being there with her will settle her down just as it did mine when I was taking my course with my husband. Doing things together -- that is what counts.
Bill and Izzie: Proud parents of a soldier.
I thought of you all day today when I was at the zoo.
I think this is a bad place for you to be asking that question and I haven't read to many responses yet and I'm afraid to unless someone is a certified marriage counselor, I'm not, I'm on my 4th marriage, military life was hard on my first 3 especially with a lot of deployments, so I have no advice except that you should discuss this with her when thing calm down a little, but, this is not the place unless you just definitely need that bias opinion for your side.
"I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"
As others have said, some discussions are necessary, and hopefully she will come around. Also try to placate her, and find out what would be acceptable to her.
IGNORE advice to get a divorce. A wife/marriage is so much more valuable than carrying a gun. I realize that some will claim that they are going to protect her and the family regardless, but if you are apart, how are you going to protect anyone?
In addition the liklihood of needing a gun for SD is less than getting struck by lightning. A gun around the house will protect at home.
As for me if I had to get rid of my guns to keep my wife I would do so. Fortunately I have no problem.
PS We have been married for over 55 years.
Proverbs 31:10 *¶Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
While I agree the advice you get here is what you pay for, I think some credit is due. The advice here isn't all "biased"
Magazine <> clip - know the difference
martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know
Be sure that any marital counselling is based on sound Biblical principles. They will be in harmony with the following.
Ephesians 5:22 *Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 *For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 *Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 *Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
That does not mean that it is proper for the husband to be overbearing, but instead to attempt to please and honor his wife even if it means sacrifice. But he is the head of the wife as established by God.
Don't be a headstrong dictator.
1 Peter 3:7 *Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
What would you rather do: please your wife, or be able to protect her, the kids, and yourself if you are attacked by intruders who are either armed or superior in numbers or fighting abilities?
If you or your family are attacked while you are unarmed, it is probable that you will be able to do neither.
Someone mentioned how disrepectful you would be to call her bluff, if that is what it is. And just how disrespectful was it of your wife to give you the ultimatum? Without the ultimatum, there would be no overriding of the ultimatum. She alone bears that responsibility.
Someone else mentioned that if you do separate, then how would you be able to protect her. It sounds like any separation would be her decision, not yours. And even though you are a big guy, there are many scenarios where your size won't help you. It'll just make you a bigger target.
I don't know the history of you and your wife. I don't know why she's so upset with you carrying... was it because you didn't discuss it with her? Or ask her permission? Good grief... whose permission do you need to protect your family?
Again, if she separates because of this and you are not able to protect her, what's the difference if she's with you and you can't protect her? Here's a big difference: if she's with you, and you haven't made provision to protect her, you have some responsibility for whatever happens to her. If she has willfully departed from you and something happens to her, she bears that responsibility due to her earlier decision to leave you.
Here's my take on it, realizing I don't know you or your wife, nor your history with her, nor hardly anything about you:
I have the God-given right to protect my family, and I'll do it however I feel it is necessary. I don't need anyone's permission, not even the ones I'll be protecting.
If my wife finds that unacceptable, she is free to leave. I'll either live the rest of my life single, or I'll find someone who won't throw a fit because I'm protecting my family.
For those who say there are other ways to protect a family other than being armed, I'll say... not always. Sometime being armed and willing is the ONLY way to get out of a situation.
Now I know you want to fulfill your promises. I understand that. But there is a time and a place to reconsider. If my wife objected to me changing my mind, I would ask her if she had ever changed her mind...
I'm not a hardass IRL. I'll go along with a lot of her stuff just because it isn't worth an argument, or because it may not matter to me. But defense of her and our child are nonnegotiable to me. And because my wife has little understanding of crime and the criminal threat, I won't even compromise on safety issues. Any compromise on my part equals a greater threat to my family.
I'll compromise on a lot of stuff, but my family's safety isn't one of those issues. Call me a hardass--doesn't matter. Call me inflexible--doesn't matter. Cal me a chauvinistic pig--doesn't matter.
When the day is done, I'll do everything I can to see that my family is safe and alive. To me, that means being armed all the time. I don't give a flying truck if anyone agrees with me or not.
My family, my decision. I'll stand against the entire world if need be. I'll stand against the gov't, I'll stand against my wife... no matter, no how.
I will protect my family. Period. Done deal. Those who don't like it are free to head on down the road.
Some things are too important to compromise. My family's safety is right at the top of the list. And no, I won't compromise while hoping she eventually comes around. That may take 30 years... meanwhile, people are getting shot, raped, and killed all over St. Louis. NOT my family, not if I can help it.
I'm not as strong, young, or healthy as I once was. Even if I were, I would be no match for multiple armed gunmen.
Nathan, from your writings I'll assume you are a religious man. If so, does not your religion teach that you are the head of the family? Isn't one of your primary obligations to see to the safety of your family?
I'll probably step on some nerves here, but if your wife is religious also, does her version of religion require her to follow your lead? Just asking.
I realize she has some great issues with guns, but giving you an ultimatum ISN'T the way to handle it.
Hopefully you can get to the bottom of her issues. Hopefully you can have some open and honest discussions. But IMO, based not on your wife but on observations over my lifetime, if you give in to her ultimatum on this issue, you'll be encountering more ultimatums from her in the years to come. You want to live like that? I sure don't, and won't.
Here's a scenario that drives me to carry even at home: Ghastly Details In Conn. Home Invasion - CBS News
Short version: Doctor, wife, and two daughters are at home. Two convicts break in, beat him unconscious. Tie him up in basement. Tie the two daughters to beds. Repeatedly rape them. Rape wife. Kill wife. Douse beds, and some sources say daughters also, with flammable liquid and set on fire. Daughters die.
I wonder how the doctor feels now about having a gun to protect his family?
One scenario I don't want to experience is to be shot by some home invaders because I was unarmed, and as I lay bleeding out, hear my wife and daughter get raped/killed. That's not how I want any of us to go out. I won't facilitate that scenario by being unarmed and just hoping we are not the victims of a home invasion.
I'll assume again you are religious. I can give you names and dates of Christians who were gunned down and killed, right alongside others. Their faith didn't keep them from being slaughtered. Believing in God isn't a surefire way to keep you, your wife, or your kids from danger. Actions on your part are sometimes the only thing standing in the way of you and death. Sometimes those actions are being armed and willing.
A few weeks ago here in St. Louis a very religious man was gunned down and killed at his workplace. My coworker knew him well. He was a righteous man, a dedicated usher. He was killed just as dead as the others around him.
If your wife thinks being religious will save her from all issues, she is sadly mistaken.
You may not agree with what I've written. That's fine. Others may not agree either. That's fine. I've been chastised on this forum by upstanding members for my views on this topic. That's fine, also.
One thing that ain't fine to me is being unprepared when the day of evil comes to me and my family. I WILL be prepared, as much as I can be.
This allows me to have a clear conscience. If I am not ready, due to my wife's objections or whatever, and something happened to my family, I wouldn't be able to forgive myself. It would haunt me forever, probably the rest of my life... and may even hasten the end.
Anyone under my roof will be as safe as I can make them, regardless of whether they approve or not. I need no one's permission to take care of my family, and I will never ask.
I may not sleep well at night, but it isn't because of not being prepared to defend my family.
My family is as protected as well as I can protect them. That's really about all I care about. As long as they're alive, then we can always discuss other issues and seek some common ground. But if they're dead, everything else is a moot point.
For those who disagree, that's okay. For those who think I'm too much of a hardass, that's okay, too. My family's alive and well, and that's about all I care about any more.
Here's another episode that drives me to be prepared at all times: The Wichita Horror, the brutal murders by Jonathan and Reginald Carr -- The Crime Library - Crime Library on truTV.com This article is a few pages long, but it drives home how depraved humans can be, and how being unaware and/or unprepared for this depravity can cost one everything. One victim survived: that's why we know so many details.
I hope you and your wife can work this out. I hope no armed/multiple criminals cross paths with your family while you are unarmed. If they do, and no one else is around, your family's future is in the criminals' twisted hands and minds.
I've seen the evil in mankind. I will not leave my family to that fate, regardless of who agrees or disagrees with me.
My family is alive and safe. My conscience is clear that I am doing what I can to keep them that way. That's really all I care about any more.
If my wife had been willing to compromise early on, perhaps we could have grown together on the issue of self defense. She wasn't willing to compromise one bit.
Therefore, I had 2 choices: do it entirely her way (and leave my family unprepared), or do it my way (and have us better prepared).
Due to her unwillingness to compromise, now I am unwilling to compromise. The road goes both ways.
I hope you two can work out the issues. But if you can't, for whatever reasons, your obligation IMO is still to protect your family, regardless of who disagrees with you.
I am glad I have arrived at the place where I am willing to protect my family. They are better off because of my decisions, regardless of whether they agree with them or not.
I have peace of mind when it comes to this issue. That is enough for me.
Last edited by grady; January 30th, 2010 at 04:09 PM. Reason: Typo, and because English rules suck.
I'm with you all the way!
I'd compromise in other areas: Whole milk or skim milk, where to go out and eat tonight, what movie should we go see tonight.
But when it comes to defending myself and my family, there is absolutely NO compromise.
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."