Advice on dealing with a threatening creep?

This is a discussion on Advice on dealing with a threatening creep? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LibertyGal Explain what you mean by "stacking"? Unless you meant "stalking"?? The setting was a street fair, with thousands of people on ...

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Thread: Advice on dealing with a threatening creep?

  1. #16
    Member Array blacksan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyGal
    Explain what you mean by "stacking"? Unless you meant "stalking"??

    The setting was a street fair, with thousands of people on the street, and a lot going on. Although WE knew he was deliberately following us, he could have claimed that he was just going to another area of the fair.

    This guy is definitely your typical coward. He tried to pick a fight with one of the men earlier, but when he couldn't intimidate him, he slunk away, then approached a few of the women who were a little away from the group.

    I've got good visuals but no audio yet. I have one of those mini-tape audiorecorders somewhere - maybe I'll dig that out and keep it in my pocket next time we go out. He's sure to sniff us out. I know I can get him to talk if I set the camera aside. He knew I was onto him and it irritated him, so I'm sure he'll want to let me know who's boss.

    We do have a few friends on the force. I'll see if we can bring this to their attention along with a photo for future reference.

    I will say this - if Creepo thinks we're just a bunch of sissy church mice, he's in for a surprise. He doesn't want to mess with a bunch of rugged men who take their responsibilities to defend their families very seriously.

    LibertyGal

    Ops, typo, I did mean stalking.

    BTW, I am LEO and strongly advise you do not allow this to go by the wayside.

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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    I believe the threat to harm someone is the definition of "assault" in many states. If you can get him on tape saying this or a group of people willing to file a statement will get him arrested.

    Definitely get his picture, a picture of his car & license plates, and file written complaints with the local PD. Think of it as building a case to get a whacko off the streets.

  4. #18
    Member Array CraigJS's Avatar
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    If you ever talk to this creep again do it in pairs. Record it if possible. If he states that he's going to kill someone, thats a "general" threat. You can't do much about it. If he states I'm going to kill you or someone else (being specific) thats a chargable threat.. File charges, and follow it up! If theres two or more of you and you all hear a specific threat, ALL file charges.. At this point the cops should be VERY interested in this guy. If you have to get the news/paper (tv or print) involved to get the LEO's to act do it! If all else fails have a party and bring a blanket

  5. #19
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    You already have the incident reported and an LEO involved. Make sure that incident has a report. You already have eye witnesses who heard terroristic threats and comments. Get signed, notorized statements by these eye-witnesses. You have pictures. Submit all to a police supervisor or detective now, before anything goes south. Carry a cell phone/camera/voice recorder for the next encounter, heaven forbid. A lot of good replies are here. Keep a calm vigilance, and stay safe.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array LenS's Avatar
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    I agree with the suggestions posed, but have one word of caution.

    Check with your state laws on audio recording before doing it. For instance in MA if you did that you'd be facing a felony! They made it illegal here to audiotape anyone under any circumstances unless BOTH parties agreed in advance! It's part of our "wiretapping statute"!
    So the videocam is OK as long as it can NOT pick up his voice (due to distance)!

    If this doesn't apply where you live, consider yourself lucky and proceed lawfully.

  7. #21
    Member Array Lawrence Keeney's Avatar
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    If he came within ten feet of me and discussed murder, rape of my loved ones, or something similarly disgusting, he would get painted with pepper spray. I'd scream GET AWAY FROM ME really loud and hose him.

    When the cops came, I would tell them about how he threatened me and my group, and how I felt personally threatened. I imagine he would shortly thereafter take a ride in the back of a police car.

    I'm betting he's one of those left-wing Christian hating punks that go after people of faith because they voted for Bush.
    "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong." Denny Crane:

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarhead79
    Restraining order????


    I don't' know what it takes to get one of these. Maybe???
    I'm going to go against the grain here and suggest that one NEVER use a restraining order.

    I've never met anyone who got one that was protected by it and I've seen several instances where the restraining order became the catylist for an escalation of the violence.

    They don't do anything but piss off the bad guy and push him across a line where he may do worse because if he gets caught doing harmless things he's in just as much trouble as if he gets caught doing harmful things.

    The restraining order removes his incentive to stop short of actual harm ... but its not enough incentive to make him stop bothering you and go away.


    The only thing restraining orders are good for is helping to establish "self defense" should you have to take them out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lawrence Keeney
    I'm betting he's one of those left-wing Christian hating punks that go after people of faith because they voted for Bush.
    Yep ... gotta love those open minded and tolerant liberals

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    While this is probably just a lone freak -
    Do NOT Overlook the possibility that he is a member of a group!

    http://www.tolerance.org/maps/hate/state.jsp?S=PA&m=4



    These groups attract mentally unbalanced people , and they
    typically instigate violence and target religious groups as well as
    ethnic populations they do not like.

    Keep the police informed of any incidents!
    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
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  10. #24
    erh
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    LibertyGal - I know that this is going to seem a bit inappropriate, but not so, IF you have the right person w/ the right mentality. Before this escalates to a seriously ugly "National News type event..." Have the right guy go and "Put The Fear Of God In This Jerk..! This does not have to involve weapons of any sort; merely a correct attitude, & a very convincing personality..! I admit that this probably does not get me nominated for "Christian" of the year, but there's lots to be said for "Compulsion to Repent..!"
    Eric Howland
    Savannah, GA.

  11. #25
    Member Array LibertyGal's Avatar
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    The rest of the story . . .

    I found out today that Creepo & his buddy did indeed follow some of our group as they returned to their cars after the event. Interestingly, he didn't follow me, a pregnant lady and her husband & toddler, which would have seemingly been the most vulnerable group (her husband is VERY imposing though, and since Creepo had interacted with me somewhat, he knew I wasn't afraid of him). He followed the larger group. They of course were aware of him, so when he rounded the corner they were all standing there waiting for him. Took him by surprise. There was some discussion about his previous comments, which he denied. It turns out one of the teens heard what he said to the lady about rape and necrophilia, so we do have two witnesses to that.

    They said his buddy hung way back, wouldn't come close. They also said his hands were shaking, he was afraid. Of course, being a coward just makes him more dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by erh
    [Have the right guy go and "Put The Fear Of God In This Jerk..! This does not have to involve weapons of any sort; merely a correct attitude, & a very convincing personality..! I admit that this probably does not get me nominated for "Christian" of the year, but there's lots to be said for "Compulsion to Repent..!"

    Well, like Pastor always says . . . "You don't have to repent and get right with God . . . but you might wish you had!" And I must say, most of our guys have a "correct attitude and a very convincing personality." They either have experience dealing with roughnecks, or they WERE one before they were saved. And that's just the ladies

    Thanks to everyone for all the input . . . I'm keeping records and always keeping watch.

    LibertyGal
    Requiring a license makes it illegal to do something that was lawful before the license was required.

  12. #26
    Member Array LibertyGal's Avatar
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    Wiretapping

    Quote Originally Posted by LenS
    ICheck with your state laws on audio recording before doing it. For instance in MA if you did that you'd be facing a felony! They made it illegal here to audiotape anyone under any circumstances unless BOTH parties agreed in advance! It's part of our "wiretapping statute"!
    So the videocam is OK as long as it can NOT pick up his voice (due to distance)!
    If this doesn't apply where you live, consider yourself lucky and proceed lawfully.
    I videotape all the time in public. Most wiretapping laws were written with covert telephone wiretapping in mind. Some states have a "two-party" law like yours, where both parties must agree; some have a "one-party" law where as long as I am one of the parties, I don't necessarily have to inform the other person. Check the fine print on the law - there may well be exceptions to the restrictions.

    But regardless of the state law, there are often case laws where the court has ruled in favor, particularly in the case of videotaping in public. PA is a "one-party" state, plus I carry a card in my video bag that cites the PA Supreme Court cases. Even LEOs often don't know the law, mistakenly telling me I must turn off the video or audio, but have allowed me to continue when I showed them the card and explain things to them.

    Generally, videotaping openly in a public place is acceptable even with the audio on and within range, because a person in a public place has "no expectation of privacy" and their conversations could be heard naturally by a bystander. (We're talking open videotaping - not pervert stuff like "upskirting" or videoing into a private residence from a public sidewalk.) The sight of someone holding a videocamera in a public place assumes that if you walk nearby and say something, you will appear on the film and the audio. you then have the option of keeping your mouth shut and avoiding the camera.

    I do not approach other people's private conversations, but if they engage one of our people, then they are fair game. (Of course, if it is just asking questions or counseling, I stay out of range, but if it is confrontational, I get right in there.)

    Also our videos are not for commercial or public exhibit.

    Federal law also reads in part: 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d). It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person not acting under color of law [in other words, not LEOs - they are under stricter rules than a civilian regarding wiretapping and must get court orders etc.] to intercept a wire, oral, or electronic communication where such person is a party to the communication or where one of the parties to the communication has given prior consent to such interception unless such communication is intercepted for the purpose of committing any criminal or tortious act in violation of the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any State.

    Now recording on a hidden audiorecorder in a two-party state might be a problem. But under the circumstances - being threatened - it might convince the police to act, and probably the worst that would happen would be that it would not be allowed as evidence in court. If the DA was foolish enough under the circumstances to charge me with a felony, I'd appeal it to the Federal level and use the Federal statute cited above.

    LibertyGal
    Requiring a license makes it illegal to do something that was lawful before the license was required.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array ssssthesnake's Avatar
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    i belive that here in california that any treat made verbaly can be constured as terorist threat if witnessed buy another might be wrong but almost sure of it imo i would wait for him then id------ and after while he is lying there id explain that if i seen him neer my family agine id ------- of course id do this where we could have a verry private chat as in just he and i that is the choice i would make not saying you or your hubby should do the same

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