Concealed Carry Permit Holders

Concealed Carry Permit Holders

This is a discussion on Concealed Carry Permit Holders within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We as concealed permits holders who has "taking a concealed weapon traning course" to get a concealed permit should be allowed to carry concealed in ...

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Thread: Concealed Carry Permit Holders

  1. #1
    Member Array foots402's Avatar
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    Question Concealed Carry Permit Holders

    We as concealed permits holders who has "taking a concealed weapon traning course" to get a concealed permit should be allowed to carry concealed in any state just like we are able to drive with our driving license to any state. This need to be change!!!!!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    I wish this were true and I would support it a hundred percent. However, training would have to be done to everyone in all states and that means that it would have to be standardized. Training from state to state varies way too much.

  3. #3
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foots402 View Post
    We as concealed permits holders who has "taking training" to get a permit should be allowed to concealed in any state just like we are able to drive with our driving license to any state. This need to be change!!!!!
    Well.....let's look at this from another perspective (even though it may look nice on the outside). You can drive through any state in the union with a current driver's license from your state of residency. Now....you move to another state, and change states of residency, you'll need to get your new state's driver's license. That's just the way it is. Each state has it's own laws, and the way we separate the states from universal (or blanket) federalist laws (which is actually what you'd be talking about), is by way of what we call state sovereignty. Those who pass certain criteria, mandated training, etc...... in order to obtain a carry permit in any state should be allowed to reciprocate under agreements amongst the sovereign states and not forced to be mandated by the federal government what they can and cannot do. One of the best ideals that keeps our country out of the pitfalls of socialism is state sovereignty itself, and by means of the constitution keeps us all free (for the time being). This nation was founded upon excellent morals, ideals, and some very smart men (and women). Folks these days can't even guess as to what it all means to them or how it relates to their life and existence in this country, because these days it's mostly taken for granted, downright ignored, or attempted to be abolished by those who want total control. Turn a resident state carry permit of any kind into a federal (universally accepted) carry permit, and you'll be taking away state sovereignty, and once again asking the federal government to step in (on something else), and take control. This should not happen. A universal (federal) driver's license would be the exact same thing. We don't want it to happen.

  4. #4
    Member Array foots402's Avatar
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    Why do you say that training from state to state varies way too much?

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    Why do you say that training from state to state varies way too much?
    Because it does.

    Some states have no training. Some states have 4 or 5 hours. Some states have 8 or more.

    Some states only talk about the laws,and have nothing about how or why or where or when.

    Other states go into detail about the law, about when to shoot or not shoot, where you can carry or not carry, and all kinds of other stuff related to concealed carry.

    In fact, training, or lack of it, is the single most common reason that the states do not have reciprocal benefits with each other.

    For instance, with an Arkansas CHL, you can carry in 32 other states.
    Some states require a course that is equal to or better in training time to their own, so those states will not recognize the AR permit because AR does not require as much time.

    Do you really want some anti-gun nitwit such as the Attorney General making training standards that allow all permits to be equal?

    Think about it. He was partly responsible for the Waco debacle and is an avowed anti-gunner. He has repeatedly stated that ownership of firearms should be illegal. He could make you pay for standards that you couldn't meet.

    Then, they wouldn't have to ban handguns, they could just make a standard that no one could achieve and effectively legislate them out of existence. Of course, its a bit more complicated than that, but there are people in this country that work day and night to strip you or your rights, and they don't care how or what it takes to do it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  6. #6
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by foots402 View Post
    Why do you say that training from state to state varies way too much?
    Some states require no permit at all.

    Some states require a multi page form describing the reason you want to carry and then "they" decide if you are eligible.

    Some states give a permit with just a background check.

    Some states require 8 hour classes or more and some require less.

    These are just some examples, in short everyone is all over the map and states grant and/or deny reciprocity based on these requirements. Way to much to deal with as it is now. I also agree with "Ram Rod", if you get the Fed's into this we all LOOSE. The best plan is to encourage your home state to work out agreements with other states. This policy is growing but it does put the burden on the carrier to know the laws in the reciprocating state. To me a small task to be able to carry state to state and keep "Big Brother" out of the mix.
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  7. #7
    Member Array tradermike69's Avatar
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    Some states just require that you take "hunters safty" and a background check and not even fire a weapon.. Others like Missouri require 8 hours class and two hours range time, And thats not really enough,, Hit the man target 18 out of 25 shots at 21 feet, In the black, But at least its a start,,

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    Take two aspirin, the US Constitution with amendments, and call me in the morning. Ok, just kidding but ‘Ram Rod’ is right. For example, here in Arizona the CCW course is so easy, even a caveman could pass it... “Unbelievable! Where’s my coat? It was suede with the fringe.”
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  9. #9
    Member Array rico68's Avatar
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    The issue I see isn't really in the training, it's in the laws. The laws vary too greatly from state-to-state. In MN the majority of the required course is classroom and spends a lot of time on the legal environment, what's a shoot situation, what isn't, etc. The actual shooting "exercise" is ridiculous. You'd have to try to fail the shooting exercise. So a carry permit from Minnesota really doesn't in any way attest to your abilities to handle a pistol beyond the very basics.

    Now look at the laws. In MN you are obligated to retreat if possible before resorting to shooting. And shooting is ONLY justified in a life or limb scenario, NEVER for protection of property. As we've seen in other threads, that is not the case in all states. Some states allow shooting for protection of property, and some states have a castle doctrine. So someone with training from a state like that will find themselves in DEEP legal troubles if they come to MN and act per their state's laws.

    Driving laws on the other hand are pretty much standardized across all 50 states for the most part. There are some finer points like winter load restrictions, etc. that are different and mostly apply to commercial operators. But for the average Joe, driving is the same in every state. And even if it's not 100% the same, you're not making the conscious decision to take someone's life if you violate a finer point of driving law. If a California motorcycle driver decides to split lanes in MN, he'll get a ticket, but he's not making the decision to end a life.

    It would be great if the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution was applied in the same way across all 50 states. I wish it was, that was the intent. But I don't see 50 state reciprocity practical in the current environment.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Good points Ramrod. Thanks for taking the time to type it all out.
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    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    That would require a FEDERALLY mandated requirement test. The federal government is already too involved in my gun ownership/usage. I have my home state permit and an OOS permit for another state. Between the two, I'm covered for the entire SE, most of the NE, and some of the Midwest and West Coast.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Amen RamRod. Very well put.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  13. #13
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    Why Could'nt (ATF) or, the (FBI) Offer an Concealed Carry Permit to Permit Holders That Have a Valid Permit From Thier Home State?Because, of the High Demand for us to Carry Concealed while we are Traveling with our Families. Im sure something could be set in place. That way there is the same training requirements set up by either the (ATF) or, The (FBI) even if it is not an Permanent Permit for example lets say You and, your family are planning a trip to Florida or, anywhere for that reason you could apply for an US Carry Concealed Permit for the Duration of your Vacation Please understand Im only asking. Im triing to learn all the Laws the incompass Carrying Concealed But, as stated in other Post each State has Different Laws. Thats why I was wondering about an 30,60 day permit that would allow us to Legally Carry Concealed While we are Traveling And, also make it Affordable example: I live In New York State Western New York Area and, my Pistol Permit is not Valid in New York City I recently called The Commisioners Office in New York City and inquired about obtaining an Permit To Carry While My Family and I where in New York City for 4 Days They Sent Me an Mountain of Paperwork Which I didnt Mind But, The Total Cost For This was Almost $400.00 I was Shocked Because, I already have an Permit from New York State Which cost me over $200.00 by the time I was Done. Its situations like that where something needs to be set in place. thank for reading and, any suggestions would be great
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  14. #14
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    Just keep in mind that when things move from state control to federal, they usually take the most most hurtful state regs to federalize. Not too long ago they were going to (or did?) use CA's auto pollution regs for federal. Being in CA I wouldn't wish that on anybody.

  15. #15
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saber View Post
    For example, here in Arizona the CCW course is so easy, even a caveman could pass it...

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