Carrying where alcohol is served?

This is a discussion on Carrying where alcohol is served? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OldVet So if " most post a certain sign in a highly visible area," in Texas, but not all, then there's still ...

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Thread: Carrying where alcohol is served?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    So if "most post a certain sign in a highly visible area," in Texas, but not all, then there's still room for doubt. Then eeback to my original complaint: How doe John Doe know what % of income is from sale of alcohol? Too much gray.
    My mistake. I meant must. A typo I'll go back and correct. A business must post a sign.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    My mistake. I meant must. A typo I'll go back and correct. A business must post a sign.
    That would make more sense!
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  4. #18
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    In Texas, any place getting a license/permit to sell alcohol at all will have stated on the License issuded by TABC (Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission) the wrods RED SIGN or the words BLUE SIGN.

    The red sign has a BIG RED 51 on it (over 51% of income derived from on premise consumption) and says "The LICENESED or UNLICENSED carrying of a firearm" .... is a crime

    The blue sign says "The UNLICENSED carrying of a firearm" .... is a crime

    When TABC issues a license, they actually provide both signs and the business is "supposed to" post the correct one according to what it says on their license. If I see a business posting a RED sign like Olive Garden/restaurants/grocery store/liquer store that should really have a BLUE sign, I'd call the TABC and have them inform the busines to post the BLUE sign instead and remove the RED sign.

    Restaurants where "alcohol is served" "for on premise consumption" are ok in Texas, as long as UNDER 51% of their income is derived from on premise consumption of alcohol.

    IANAL

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    In NH we have no such laws. The only places you cannot carry as defined in NH RSA is a courthouse and any other federal building otherwise defined as off-limits under federal law.

    I can pretty much carry my CCW anywhere else I want in the state.
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  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    I agree.......thanks for the response guys. I wasn't going to "test the waters" but just wanted your thoughts.
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  7. #21
    Member Array tbmccord's Avatar
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    In Texas, there is the 51% rule. If an establishment generates 51% or more of its revenue from the sale of alcohol, they must post a 51% sign and you can't carry there. Even if there is no sign, you can not carry and consume at the same time. If you blow a 0.01 while carrying, you will be prosecuted and will lose your CHL. Legal limit for DWI is 0.08.
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  8. #22
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    GA has a 51% law too, only there are no signs. You can't carry in any business that makes more from alcohol than food sales. It was not that long ago that you couldn't carry in any place that sold alcohol.

    BTW, alcohol sales are allowed on Sunday here as long as it's a restaurant that sales food. Many bars that sell food are also open on Sundays here.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugergirl View Post
    Worse yet is Michigan law that does not specify a percent, only that alcohol sales(consumed on the premises, by the glass) are not the PRIMARY source of income. Now does the local bowling alley, for example sell more alcohol, than they do food, or lane rentals, or entertainment. Does Hooter's sell more food, or alcohol or merchandise? No percentage to go by just the primary source of income, try figuring that one out on your own. If in doubt, don't carry. And in Michigan the legal limit for DUI is 0.08 while the legal limit for carrying is 0.02 blood alcohol by percent.
    As you state with your bold PRIMARY source of income. The bowling alley is a given carry away (IANAL) their prine income is bowling not booze. Hooters I could agrue both ways; though they do bill themsleves' as a BAR and grill. Olive Garden in Michigan I would say carry in cause Food is their prime income source. I would think that if the business is in business to do anything other that sell alcohol by the drink then you are OK in Michigan. As it is in Kansas unless posted.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array SCfromNY's Avatar
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    This is an ongoing conversation in SC. As oldvet said,"SECTION 16‑23‑465. Additional penalty for unlawfully carrying pistol or firearm into business selling alcoholic liquors, beers or wines for on‑premises consumption"

    Here the trouble starts. In all the places off limits when you study for the SC CWP test this is not mentioned. In fact if you download the "restricted" places from SLED it does not appear. The additional penalty for UNLAWFULLY carrying could be contrued to mean persons without a CWP, felon, ect.

    Hopefully this will be addressed this year. Two instructers advise not to worry however I do not wish to be the test case. If you are overly concerned about the parking area of a restaurant when you leave; leave earlier, avoid restaurant, concealed means concealed.
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  11. #25
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    SCfromNY is correct. Carry with a valid concealed Weapons permit is "Lawful Carry"

    So how can an additional penalty for "Unlawful" carry even apply?

    and Concealed carry with permit is even exempted by definition in a previous section "carrying of concealed weapons...". Not only is the Concealed carry exempted in that section but it is also the section where carry by police officers is addressed and exempted. These are both exempted from definition as unlawful, therefore they are lawful carry.

    SECTION 16-23-460. Carrying concealed weapons; forfeiture of weapons.

    Any person carrying a deadly weapon usually used for the infliction of personal injury concealed about his person is guilty of a misdemeanor, must forfeit to the county, or, if convicted in a municipal court, to the municipality the concealed weapon, and must be fined not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not less than thirty days nor more than ninety days. Nothing herein contained may be construed to apply to (1) persons carrying concealed weapons upon their own premises or pursuant to and in compliance with Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23, or (2) peace officers in the actual discharge of their duties. The provisions of this section do not apply to rifles, shotguns, dirks, slingshots, metal knuckles, or razors unless they are used with the intent to commit a crime or in furtherance of a crime.


    In here is Article 4 of Chapter 31 of Title 23 (which contains the Concealed Weapons Permit laws and prohibited carry places and Alcohol ain't in there!) http://www.scstatehouse.gov/CODE/t23c031.htm

    That's my reading of it. You do your own. There are several old threads here with all the links to the interacting laws.

    Complicated? You bet.

    But mostly this is complicated by the Attorney General who has issued his opinion that contradicts that and he insists that "additional Penalties" clause makes it illegal as he believes it was the legislators intent to make it illegal. That seems to be the only place the illegality comes from that I can find... his opinion.

    So be careful. You know that our AG thinks it illegal and has stated this in writing several times. But you will not be able find it clearly written into law.

  12. #26
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    Expanding a bit... Private Party With Drinks?

    I do not drink, but may attend a get together where others are. I'm talking the polite social drink not a keg party thing, and nobody over indulges. If I carry into the house and find others have a drink, must I disarm?

  13. #27
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    I think that only applies to a "business."
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  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    What I hate are these states that give some percentage of business income derived from sale of alcohol, etc. Who knows that crap before they walk in.

    In FL, CC in a "bar or tavern" is prohibited. In a restuarant that serves alcohol, you cannot sit in the area intended mainly for serving alcohol, such as the bar. Sitting at a table is allowed with CC. We don't have to ask the owner to produce last year's income sheet to see if we can come in.

    So if I want to eat at John Doe's "Bar & Grill," I don't carry. Olive garden? I'm walking in and taking a booth. No problem.

    Since you didn't quote SC's exact wording on its law, I won't offer an opinion as to whether your case is legal or not.

    that is up for interpretation....the statute states "in the portion of an establishment that is dedicated to dispensing alcohol for consumption"...there has been some talk that the "portion" of the establishment that "dispenses" alcohol is thethe actual bar and not the entire establishment as it is worded...it does not say "served"...

    i'm not going to jump in and be the test case but there are many who carry in bars but do not sit at the bar...which is where the alcohol is "dispensed"....

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldLincoln View Post
    I do not drink, but may attend a get together where others are. I'm talking the polite social drink not a keg party thing, and nobody over indulges. If I carry into the house and find others have a drink, must I disarm?
    I don't think private parties are not an establishment that sells alcohol for consumption on the premises.

    Virginia, you can't CC in a place that sells alcohol for consumption, but you can Open Carry (what sense does that make?).

    NC, you can't carry at all in a place that sells alcohol for consumption. You also can't carry in place or assembly that charges admission (again, what sense does that make?). Neither can you carry while attending a parade while either a participant or a spectator. Some strange carry laws in NC.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    NC, you can't carry at all in a place that sells alcohol for consumption. You also can't carry in place or assembly that charges admission (again, what sense does that make?). Neither can you carry while attending a parade while either a participant or a spectator. Some strange carry laws in NC.
    Those laws are Jim Crow holdovers designed to stop racial minorites from carrying in places where they might gather all at once for meetings or political protests. The laws were selectively enforced so that white Klansmen and militia members could get away with having guns but blacks couldn't. After 1965, the legislature didn't bother changing the law.

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