More stringent Qualification for Permits - Page 3

More stringent Qualification for Permits

This is a discussion on More stringent Qualification for Permits within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's a right....

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    It's a right.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Self Regulating

    Quote Originally Posted by Bkrazy View Post
    I think we as a community should be policing ourselves so we dont have the government in our business. It would be nice if the local gun store would require some proof of training before they would sell us weapons. I am not saying the government should establish this but, Bob over at Guns R Us should be asking people if they have basic gun skills before he sends them out the door with a soon to be loaded weapon. I know this would hurt a stores bottom line, but it would look great to the general public if we could police ourselves.
    I am an avid Scuba Diver as well as shooter. The diving industry is a prime example of how effective self regulating can be. Your chances of being hurt bowling are higher than diving. More people die on the golf course every year than die from Scuba accidents. Granted, there are fewer divers than golfers, but as a percentage of the population of each sport, golfing is not as safe as diving. The only government regulation in the diving industry is the DOT regulation of compressed air. But in the vast majority of cases, you cannot have a tank filled, rent or buy life support equipment or join a dive charter unless you can show a valid certification card, and in many cases, proof of recent diving. This is self regulatory. The less government intervention, the more effective.

    Unfortunately, it is most likely too late in the game to have the same self regulation for concealed carry permits.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I would like to see guidelines for qualifying for CCP.
    Why?

    I would also like to see a program where the government provides every American of age a rifle, a pistol and a shotgun along with a monthly allowance of practice ammo.
    Horrible idea. Why should I pay for your guns and ammo? Why should you pay for mine? Ridiculous.

  4. #34
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    I was thinking the same thing about some of these younger people that are taking tests, have had some trining for hunting & etc. At a class the other day the instructor was ready to flunk two 21 yr olds. I was just an observer and was ready to hit the floor a couple of times.
    Yesterday I saw the instructor and he said he did flunk one of them. The other took some more lessons and passed the range/safety.
    Also some of the new ones with CWL give me the feeling (for lack of better explanation) that they think they are now John Waynes and are going to save the world. They spend a little money on a weapon and then spends humongous amounts on holsters, trying to find the one that they are fastest with & etc.
    So it is not age only.
    Peaceful

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    The right to travel freely is not infringed by requiring a drivers license. You are still free to walk, take the bus, ride a bike, have a friend drive you, take a taxi, fly... Yes, I understand what you are saying, infringment on part and where do you draw the line, but "travel" is the right, not "driving." And "to keep and bear arms" is a right. That is a little more specific.


    i travel in my car it is a right to do so....i as most americans do choose the auto as their mode of transportation and it is therefore fundamental to the right to travel....

    what if you're indigent and cant walk or ride a bike and have no money to ride a bus or train etc...but you do have enough to travel in your car(taking the bus in philly is way more expensive than using a personal car and id assume it is anywhere else too...)
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexcantslee View Post
    I think we need to be less stringent personally. I agree people need to be practice and train but Im a supporter of the 2nd Amend which gives us the RIGHT to bear firearms
    Alex,

    An important distinction needs to be made. The 2nd amendment gives us nothing.

    We have certain unalienable rights inherent in our humanity. No government, constitution, or bill of rights can grant them to us, nor take them away.

    We have the right to keep and bear arms, as does every citizen of every nation everywhere. Regardless of what laws are passed, amendments added or removed to the Constitution, or supreme court decisions, we, as humans, have an individual right to keep and bear arms.

    The 2nd amendment is merely a declarative statement to the government, a reminder that we will not give up this right.

    Regarding the OP's thoughts, Thomas Jefferson said, "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

    Liberty is not perfect. There are inconveniences, deaths, and tragedies as a result of our liberty. But it's better than the alternative.

  7. #37
    Member Array sleepyhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I would like to see guidelines for qualifying for CCP. I would also like to see a program where the government provides every American of age a rifle, a pistol and a shotgun along with a monthly allowance of practice ammo.
    Who would pay for it? What about the people that are opposed to gun ownership, would you force them to own a rifle? Would you force them to pay taxes to pay for other people's rifles, even though they are morally opposed to gun ownership?

    Government intervention is not the answer, it is the problem.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dairycreek View Post
    While I understand where the OP is coming from I just cannot, in good conscience, invite any part of the government to set up another requirement for that which his supposed to be an unfettered constitutional right.
    My feelings exactly. I'd also be willing to guess that unregulated breeding has caused more problems in this country than just about anything else but I support the right to even if it makes me cringe sometimes.
    Last edited by kpw; February 2nd, 2010 at 07:34 PM. Reason: fix
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  9. #39
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    No permits
    No NICS
    No restrictions
    No exceptions

    I feel the same way. I had to watch a few senior citizens get their CPL here in Michigan after waving the muzzle around at everything, not being able to load a magazine themselves, or hit the target with any form of repeatability...I'd be terrified if I saw one of them draw in public. There is a better chance of them shooting their own leg than getting a shot at the BG...
    So the right to self defense doesn't include those who most need it?

  10. #40
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    Thumbs down Not a good idea

    Too young? Too old? Whose opinion on what classes/groups of people are too whatever to be free?

    If 90 today, why not 80 or 70 or 60 or 50, or all.

    I've heard the anti-RKBA folk speaking at Virginia Tech propose that all CHP holders should be required to meet the same level and frequency or proficiency testing as LEOs. That's there idea of reasonable requirements -- following the Heller shutdown of their mistaken manta that we had no individual right.

    If anyone has any data to show that LEOs (with their testing) or States with more restrictive proficiency testing requirements have less ND or more crimes than by those who legally carry in those States w/o such restrictions on freedom and the RKBA, let them put it forward.

    I don't absolutely voice a negative, as negatives are hard to prove. But I don't think such data exist. I have never seen it and I believe that if it did exist that anti would be bantering it about at every opportunity.

    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Another thing we've noted recently, is that we havent seen any data that shows that states with more stringent CC requirements have any lower safety records than states without any requirements at all (beyond background checks).
    Especially Alaska & Vermont w/o any problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Pennsylvania is "Shall Issue" with no strings attached. AKA No written, oral, or range testing required.
    Our incident rate of accidental shooting or negligent discharge is the same or lower than every other State...with PA having one of the highest percentages of citizens with licenses to carry per the total state population in the U.S.

    Since you feel that your Father In Law is unable to safely own or carry a firearm and that he is a danger to himself and others around him then you should probably talk to him about and express your concerns & if that fails then contact his family physician and your local police or sheriff dept.
    The OP needs to step up to the responsibility of being free. This proposal is no different for all the anti-RKBA voices calling on government to make them safe by removing guns from . (fill-in-the-blank) . -- except by degree.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    training is a back door ban for the poor not to be able to exercise a right.....


    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Agreed. Wholeheartedly support firearm safety being taught in schools...grades K-12.

    Other than that, training should be encouraged...NOT required.

    Training or not, accidents happen. Adding a training requirement will not prevent anyone from doing something stupid or reckless hours, days, weeks, months or years after the training is conducted.



    Quote Originally Posted by golfer View Post
    IMO, these types of situations should be dealt with one case at a time, not as a group. My 86 year old father knows how to handle a gun and enjoys doing it.


    Father, grandfather and others in my case. A good number of my family were shooting well into their 90s. And I sure hope I have another 20, or more, years of shooting ahead of me -- w/o government interference.
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  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    I've heard the anti-RKBA folk speaking at Virginia Tech propose that all CHP holders should be required to meet the same level and frequency or proficiency testing as LEOs.
    No, no please anything but that
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I would like to see guidelines for qualifying for CCP. I would also like to see a program where the government provides every American of age a rifle, a pistol and a shotgun along with a monthly allowance of practice ammo.
    Every day I lose a little more faith in the human race.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  13. #43
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    Ohio's CCW requirements are good enough, classroom and two hours of shooting, done by NRA certified instructors at Miami Valley Shooting Grounds. No permit needed to own guns in the home to defend it. CCW is a heavy burden and a responsibility with legal and civil consquences.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    I would like to see guidelines for qualifying for CCP. I would also like to see a program where the government provides every American of age a rifle, a pistol and a shotgun along with a monthly allowance of practice ammo.
    What the gov gives...the gov can take away, in a heartbeat. Careful what you ask for...

    -----------------------------------------------
    To the OP...
    I would not want any elderly person (of sound mind) without the ability to have a weapon in the home, regardless of training.
    It's RKBA, not RKBA w/Training.OMO
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; February 2nd, 2010 at 10:03 PM.
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  15. #45
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    I personally would train anybody that asked for it and I believe a lot of gun shops could steer people to somebody that couyld teach them the basics,I've taught people with my own firearms and ammunition to further our sport and help them become armed citizens,I don't want the Gubment involved anymore than they already are
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