It's a right.
This is a discussion on More stringent Qualification for Permits within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's a right....
It's a right.
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
Unfortunately, it is most likely too late in the game to have the same self regulation for concealed carry permits.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
I was thinking the same thing about some of these younger people that are taking tests, have had some trining for hunting & etc. At a class the other day the instructor was ready to flunk two 21 yr olds. I was just an observer and was ready to hit the floor a couple of times.
Yesterday I saw the instructor and he said he did flunk one of them. The other took some more lessons and passed the range/safety.
Also some of the new ones with CWL give me the feeling (for lack of better explanation) that they think they are now John Waynes and are going to save the world. They spend a little money on a weapon and then spends humongous amounts on holsters, trying to find the one that they are fastest with & etc.
So it is not age only.
i travel in my car it is a right to do so....i as most americans do choose the auto as their mode of transportation and it is therefore fundamental to the right to travel....
what if you're indigent and cant walk or ride a bike and have no money to ride a bus or train etc...but you do have enough to travel in your car(taking the bus in philly is way more expensive than using a personal car and id assume it is anywhere else too...)
S&W M&P40/M&P9c OC rigs
S&W 640-1 or Sig P238 as a CC rig
proud www.georgiacarry.org member
Second Amendment Foundation Life member
An important distinction needs to be made. The 2nd amendment gives us nothing.
We have certain unalienable rights inherent in our humanity. No government, constitution, or bill of rights can grant them to us, nor take them away.
We have the right to keep and bear arms, as does every citizen of every nation everywhere. Regardless of what laws are passed, amendments added or removed to the Constitution, or supreme court decisions, we, as humans, have an individual right to keep and bear arms.
The 2nd amendment is merely a declarative statement to the government, a reminder that we will not give up this right.
Regarding the OP's thoughts, Thomas Jefferson said, "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
Liberty is not perfect. There are inconveniences, deaths, and tragedies as a result of our liberty. But it's better than the alternative.
Government intervention is not the answer, it is the problem.
Last edited by kpw; February 2nd, 2010 at 08:34 PM. Reason: fix
"In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero
So the right to self defense doesn't include those who most need it?I feel the same way. I had to watch a few senior citizens get their CPL here in Michigan after waving the muzzle around at everything, not being able to load a magazine themselves, or hit the target with any form of repeatability...I'd be terrified if I saw one of them draw in public. There is a better chance of them shooting their own leg than getting a shot at the BG...
Too young? Too old? Whose opinion on what classes/groups of people are too whatever to be free?
If 90 today, why not 80 or 70 or 60 or 50, or all.
I've heard the anti-RKBA folk speaking at Virginia Tech propose that all CHP holders should be required to meet the same level and frequency or proficiency testing as LEOs. That's there idea of reasonable requirements -- following the Heller shutdown of their mistaken manta that we had no individual right.
If anyone has any data to show that LEOs (with their testing) or States with more restrictive proficiency testing requirements have less ND or more crimes than by those who legally carry in those States w/o such restrictions on freedom and the RKBA, let them put it forward.
I don't absolutely voice a negative, as negatives are hard to prove. But I don't think such data exist. I have never seen it and I believe that if it did exist that anti would be bantering it about at every opportunity.
Father, grandfather and others in my case. A good number of my family were shooting well into their 90s. And I sure hope I have another 20, or more, years of shooting ahead of me -- w/o government interference.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
No, no please anything but thatI've heard the anti-RKBA folk speaking at Virginia Tech propose that all CHP holders should be required to meet the same level and frequency or proficiency testing as LEOs.
Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.
Ohio's CCW requirements are good enough, classroom and two hours of shooting, done by NRA certified instructors at Miami Valley Shooting Grounds. No permit needed to own guns in the home to defend it. CCW is a heavy burden and a responsibility with legal and civil consquences.
To the OP...
I would not want any elderly person (of sound mind) without the ability to have a weapon in the home, regardless of training.
It's RKBA, not RKBA w/Training.OMO
Last edited by retsupt99; February 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 PM.
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
I personally would train anybody that asked for it and I believe a lot of gun shops could steer people to somebody that couyld teach them the basics,I've taught people with my own firearms and ammunition to further our sport and help them become armed citizens,I don't want the Gubment involved anymore than they already are
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .