CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner?

This is a discussion on CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wouldn't he have to initial also?...

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Thread: CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Wouldn't he have to initial also?
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    You've been all this time without a lease, why sign one now? Has there been some change in circumstances that would require that you sign a lease?

    If not, then tell the landlord that you're fine as a month-to-month tenant. That way you don't get locked into an contractual agreement regarding your CC. The law being on your side otherwise (as you stated) the LL can't do much except terminate your month-to-month tenancy.

    Which he would do as soon as you tried to remove the "no CC" provisions in the lease. If you signed the lease and got caught CCing you'd possibly be on the hook for rent under the terms of the lease AND be forced to vacate (evicted). Not a good scenario.

    So, IMO, unless there's something happening which needs you to sign, don't. It's not in your best interest given what you've told us.

  4. #18
    Member Array Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Wouldn't he have to initial also?
    Technically, neither has to initial. It's signed as stated. If text is struck out in it, then it can not apply if signed as such. The owner is obliged by the hard copy of the document. As such, he would not be able to produce an original document that was not struck out. The tenant initialing the change only protects the owner and is not required by law. It protects the owner in case the tenant claims the document was changed after signing, but in this case I don't think that would matter.

  5. #19
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
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    You might check into your state's lease laws. In some states, once a lease has expired, the occupant has the legal right to remain on a month to month basis without a new lease being signed.

    Before I went through the expense of obtaining an attorney, I would sit down and have a face to face conversation with your landlord. The clause prohibiting concealed carry might be a requirement of his insurance carrier and may not reflect his personal feelings.

  6. #20
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    Keep us posted, please.
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  7. #21
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    re: AZ Husker

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
    Wouldn't he have to initial also?
    NO.

    Owner signs the returned lease when he gets it back. That's enough. So is continuing to accept his rent.

  8. #22
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    I believe I would opt for legal council on this. Could very well the law as written would give you, as the business owner, the option to CC.
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I agree this is a question for a knowledgeable lawyer. A detailed knowledge of firearms law and landlord/tenant law is necessary.
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  10. #24
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    Thanks again for all of the input. I personally consider my business space the same as my private residence, and based on what I have read, the State of SC agrees. I pay for, or have paid for the right to use that space within the scope of the law. IMO the person in control of the premises is based on "mutual accord and satisfaction", or "payment for goods, service, or product", and as an expectation of that process, the landlord gives up his control of the unit, and assigns his property owner's rights to control, or govern that particular space to the tenant. Accordingly, I set the law (within obvious limitations), including who comes and who go's, and what they come with. Please note that I have no issue with him, or any other owner exercising their right to ban cc on their property, but only up to the point where they rent or lease the space.

    As a side note, I also own, as a separate venture, several residential rental properties (both condo units as well as single family dwellings) and would never attempt to take away any of my tenant's right to protect themselves &/or their personal property. Furthermore, I do not consider it my right (even as a landlord) to ask them whether they own any firearms or cc. My feeling is and always has been that the decision to purchase and own firearms is a personal decision that only that individual can make, & in order to avoid any preconceived notions, should be kept in confidence. I try to go by the live and let live policy and feel pushed in a corner over this whole thing.

  11. #25
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    I have been carefully studying the CA laws and believe the state law supersedes contracts which usually include a statement that if any provision is deemed unlawful the remainder stays in effect. So my non-legal opinion is that you can sign it and both are bound by all legal provisions which allows you (and employees in CA) to carry. As for entering through non-leased space, CA allows such going reasonably directly to and from place of business.

    I know you are not in CA but the language may be very close, so check it out.

    The CA Statute:
    Any person engaged in any lawful business (including nonprofit organizations) or any officer, employee, or agent authorized for lawful purposes connected with the business may possess a loaded firearm within the place of business if that person is over 18 years of age and not otherwise prohibited from possessing firearms. (Penal Code 12026,12031(h).)

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    This is my opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I am a LEO with 14 years experience, so take it for what its worth:

    The lease is a civil agreement. Whether or not you can carry there as a business owner is dependent on SC criminal law relating to carrying weapons. You say that its legal, despite the posted signs, for the premises holder to carry under that criminal law. Given that, failure to comply with the lease (i.e. carrying when the lease agreement says you can't) is a civil violation of the lease, not a violation of the criminal statute. The landlord could take action against you for violation of the lease, such as breaking it and forcing you to move, but you couldn't be charged with violation of the criminal statute so long as its your premises.

    Talk to an attorney in SC about it, but that is my take.
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  13. #27
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
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    OP: Please let us know how it ends up.

  14. #28
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I too think this is a good question, let us know what happens
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  15. #29
    Member Array ExHippie's Avatar
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    You are right that as long as you are renting you have occupied the space the same as if you were renting an apartment, etc. My guess is that this is only good as a civil agreement between you and the landlord, meaning you wouldn't be committing a crime by CCing. However, it would become a condition of the lease, meaning you would be breaking the terms of the lease if you CC'd, and he could boot you if he found out.

  16. #30
    Member Array MountainPacker's Avatar
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    I'm not a lawyer, but I would redact the CC clause and then sign it.

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