CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner?

This is a discussion on CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by hdawson Check with your attorney for real facts as to your tenant rights. Bingo! Per your states laws you may be in ...

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Thread: CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Check with your attorney for real facts as to your tenant rights.
    Bingo!

    Per your states laws you may be in a position to sign this as in full faith AND at the same time per citizen and tenant rights wholly ignore the language specific to the carry part of the lease agreement.

    A win-win for everyone.

    Seek out an attorney for clarity, as in addition to the real estate attorney you should be referencing on this agreement any way (!).

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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  3. #32
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Sorry, tenant or not, you have no rights. If the property owner posts a state-legal No Weapons sign, that applies to ANYONE that enters the building. 25 years in the real estate business as a broker, educator, landlord and consultant is my background on this issue.

    No, I'm not a lawyer (thank goodness), but tenants (residential or commercial) don't have the same rights as property owners.

    Depending on the local market, he may ignore it, or it may give him the opportunity to give you the boot. And from a legal liability standpoint, he is unlikely to give you a pass. If there is an issue with someone else with regards to a firearm, he puts himself in legal jeopardy by giving you permission to carry.

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biloxi Bersa View Post
    Sorry, tenant or not, you have no rights. If the property owner posts a state-legal No Weapons sign, that applies to ANYONE that enters the building. 25 years in the real estate business as a broker, educator, landlord and consultant is my background on this issue.
    I don't question that you are right about Mississippi, and maybe the majority of States. However, things like this are State-by-State issues.

    *************************

    OldHat

    I second the opinions to check with a local lawyer.

    BTW -- if it is not a "Criminal issue" but just a "Civil Issue" the pro-RKBA blood running through my veins might well push me to not cut-and-run, but to litigate the civil issue.

    You win and precedent is set. You loss and the case becomes a "poster child" for your local grassroots RKBA organization to push for a State Pro-RKBA bill.

    Here in Virginia, the legislative manta is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Hypotheticals and what-ifs don't cut it to get laws passed.

    Hence, our Castle Doctrine is hard to move to Statute law -- because there are no "poster child" cases on the criminal side. There the Common Law is working. However, the cost of defending oneself from frivolous civil suits is getting Delegates' attention. And once again we have a bill moving forward. I don't know if we'll get it by the Senate. But someone has to fight for the RKBA. If you have an active grassroots RKBA organization, they (and maybe the NRA) might be willing to help with civil litigation.

    As always, YMMV. In a free world it is up to each individual to decide if this hill is worth dieing for (even figuratively).

    Good luck, in whatever you do.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  5. #34
    New Member Array OldHat's Avatar
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    Sorry Biloxi, but here in SC I have the right to carry in my fixed place of business. The SC Supreme Court has already affirmed that in a previous case of owner vs tenant. That particular case only referenced a decal, not specific language in a lease agreement, and that is where my concern comes in.

    Under the SC Law,

    SECTION 16‑23‑20. Unlawful carrying of pistol; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any pistol, whether concealed or not, except as follows:

    (8) Any person in his home, or upon his real property, or fixed place of business.


    I know my rights as both a business owner, and as a tenant, and can assure you, not considering the lease verbiage, I am allowed to carry in my business.

    My question is truly in reference to the lease only, and whether that decal on the door is legal, or not, has no bearing on me.

    Thanks again for all of the input & I will post with any new developments.

  6. #35
    New Member Array Saltcreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHat View Post
    My question is really all about the lease...can they legally prohibit me? If they can't, then I will just sign away, and keep on keeping on. (kind of like the illegal decals...look good but have no value), or does my signature (voluntarily) relieve me of that right, legallly?
    A lease is a contactual agreement in which you agree to the terms and are bound to the terms of the contract. If you agree, you give up your right. Just like you have the right to remain silent - until you give up the right.
    Help your own self - the Government is busy takin' care of itself!

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saltcreek View Post
    A lease is a contactual agreement in which you agree to the terms and are bound to the terms of the contract. If you agree, you give up your right. Just like you have the right to remain silent - until you give up the right.
    I'd tend to agree,but only insofar as breaking the lease. You have given up no "right" as a lease can not make you give up any legal rights in a criminal manner. As such, he would probably have the right to terminate the lease and start proceedings to evict you, but you have broken no law.

    I would still consult a lawyer, as you may have additional rights on what a lease may limit.

  8. #37
    Member Array Biloxi Bersa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHat View Post
    Sorry Biloxi, but here in SC I have the right to carry in my fixed place of business. The SC Supreme Court has already affirmed that in a previous case of owner vs tenant. That particular case only referenced a decal, not specific language in a lease agreement, and that is where my concern comes in.

    Under the SC Law,

    SECTION 16‑23‑20. Unlawful carrying of pistol; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any pistol, whether concealed or not, except as follows:

    (8) Any person in his home, or upon his real property, or fixed place of business.


    I know my rights as both a business owner, and as a tenant, and can assure you, not considering the lease verbiage, I am allowed to carry in my business.

    My question is truly in reference to the lease only, and whether that decal on the door is legal, or not, has no bearing on me.

    Thanks again for all of the input & I will post with any new developments.
    No apology necessary. Mississippi also gives a business owner the right to carry at his place of business, without a CCW. However, if the landlord/property owner is specific about no weapons on the premises, the landlord wins. The courts would simply say, yes you can carry or possess a weapon at your place of business; if the landlord says otherwise, you just can't do it at THIS location.

    I'm the biggest pro-2A guy I know. But if I was a landlord of a commercial building, I'd be hardpressed to permit it, simply from the liability standpoint. If I did allow it, I'd require that the tenant would have to have a huge liability insurance policy naming me co-insured. The risk of financial ruin if some tenant shot an innocent bystander is scary.

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldHat View Post
    Do not want to move, location, rent and area is right. Not to mention been there since 1992.
    Building owner already has "no CC" decals (in legal format) posted at entry to building. Sorry but employees do not have the legal right to ignore that decal, but a tenant principal (owner operator) does have the legal right to carry in his "property", rented or owned. That is a fact.
    My question is really all about the lease...can they legally prohibit me? If they can't, then I will just sign away, and keep on keeping on. (kind of like the illegal decals...look good but have no value), or does my signature (voluntarily) relieve me of that right, legallly?
    Signing a Lease IS signing a CONTRACT.

    If you agree but carry anyway he can evict you and still hold you financially liable to the lease terms.

    No different from a Lease that prohibits smoking , signage, or other uses the owner doesn't want.
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    CC Ban On Tenant Business Owner?
    No can do. You cannot be stripped of your arms, nor denied your carrying of arms.

    However, the creator of a lease can put language in there as to the stipulations you agree to in exchange for occupation and rent. Fail to do those, then you break terms of the lease and get ejected. That's how it works. Carry all you want. But if you sign such an agreement and then break it, you're agreeing to the terms acknowledging that you'll be ejected if you do. It's no different then agreeing to not have cats/dogs; not having stripped vehicles all over your front lawn; loud parties after 10pm; or whatever else. No lease is keeping you from doing these things, today or any other. But signing a lease agreeing to the terms means you're subject to the terms (ejection/fines/etc) if you do.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    If the lawyer tells you it's legal to take your ability to carry away through signing that lease, then there is another option. You can simply strike out that portion of the lease agreement before signing/returning and hope it doesn't get noticed or that it's not enough of an issue to matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    When you sign a lease, you DO agree to the terms...pretty simple.
    Now you have to decide if the cheap rent is worth not being armed...or stay armed and break the lease if you should be discovered.
    Now as far as checking with a lawyer, you'd want to know if ignoring the lease and CCW could put you in jail, or just void the lease.


    ^^^^^YEP^^^^

    Check with a lawyer, and delete that portion from agreement


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