Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill? - Page 4

Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

This is a discussion on Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by 10thmtn I'm not so sure about the pelvic bone shot. For one, it is a circle, so you would need to break ...

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Thread: Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    I'm not so sure about the pelvic bone shot. For one, it is a circle, so you would need to break it in two places. Second, I'm not so sure you can reliably break that bone with a handgun bullet.
    Shooting the pelvis would be unintentional. On the typical BG target, top of the thighs up, the mean looking guy with the gun. I can draw and point shoot and hit the target somewhere around 98% of the time first shot by point shooting. That's around 5yrds. Keep in mind I am just starting to practice this as well. But think about how close these things happen. My first hit is somewhere from the pelvic area to the ribcage. Typically you correct yourself and the recoil raises the second shot into the ribcage. My whole intention is to "wing" them as badly but as quickly as possible. They have a second or so after the first 2 and I will be using aimed fire for the rest if it is necessary. I have a video posted of me and my wife shooting. I'll see if I can cut out one of the point shooting segments and post it. The time it saves in the draw is noticeable.


  2. #47
    Member Array naking's Avatar
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    I'm from the school of thought that you "take your time, quickly." I'll fire fairly quickly but am extremely likely to make a good hit with the first shot.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    The very source that the wiki article cites and got it wrong. Thanks for setting us straight. I'm doing my duty as a cyber citizen and editing the article at Wikipedia according to your correction.
    Thank you for making the corrections, Sir.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    Hi Saber,

    From Wikipedia:

    "Modern Technique of the Pistol

    The Mozambique Drill - 1974

    Mike Rousseau, a student of the Modern Technique, reported that he had been involved in a gunfight in Mozambique, during the fighting around the airport of the capital city Lourenço Marques. His assailant was advancing rapidly toward him with his rifle and the student shot him twice in the upper torso. The advance of his assailant was not slowed by these two shots, and so the student shot him in the head, killing him [4].

    The effect of a bullet striking the human body depends greatly upon exactly which organ is struck during the penetration. In some instances the assailant might drop quickly, in others, there might be no apparent effect. A bullet striking the brain kills the assailant almost without exception. Recognizing that similar situations would occur, Cooper popularized the term Mozambique Drill based on the technique improvised by his student there. This drill consists of shooting two rounds to the center of the torso, followed by a pause and assessment of the situation and then a more carefully aimed shot to the head. Under nearly any conditions, engaging an assailant with the Mozambique Drill should offer a high probability that one's assailant will be stopped and likely killed.
    [edit]The El Presidente - 1977"

    -Bill
    Interesting, I have seen the source as being the technic used by the British fighting the Mozambique warriors. I have seen it stated that the warriors wore breast plates of wood, (possibly bamboo) or that they were high of drugs and two shots to the chest failed to stop them. The British issued orders to fire two to the chest, then one to the head.
    I believe this pre-dates the incident listed above.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    Interesting, I have seen the source as being the technic used by the British fighting the Mozambique warriors.
    Do you have a link to this source?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array Rexster's Avatar
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    My interpretation of this "assessment" is that if the head is still there after two shots, put a third shot above the COM, because the COM might be armored, or the opponent might just be amped on something, from adrenaline to PCP, and will not be deterred by mere COM hits. My third shot will be directed at the base of the neck, though, not the head*. My fourth shot may or may not be directed at the lower face or eye socket area.

    I read too many accounts of LEOs pouring hit after hit into the COM, without stopping the felon. Yes, those officers needed to reassess their point of aim! I hope I can have the calmness to to this of the need arises. My one and thus far only defensive shooting, which occurred on duty, required just the one shot.

    *As I recall, the actual event in Mozambique that inspired the namesake drill involved the third shot hitting the neck, according to one source. BTW, being a long-time reader of Lt. Col. Jeff Cooper, I do believe he named the technique. I avidly read of African colonial history, and never saw anything as reported by TedBeau. I say this respectfully of the members here, not meaning to be argumentative.

  7. #52
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexster View Post
    My interpretation of this "assessment" is that if the head is still there after two shots, put a third shot above the COM, because the COM might be armored, or the opponent might just be amped on something, from adrenaline to PCP, and will not be deterred by mere COM hits. My third shot will be directed at the base of the neck, though, not the head*. My fourth shot may or may not be directed at the lower face or eye socket area.

    I read too many accounts of LEOs pouring hit after hit into the COM, without stopping the felon. Yes, those officers needed to reassess their point of aim! I hope I can have the calmness to to this of the need arises. My one and thus far only defensive shooting, which occurred on duty, required just the one shot.

    *As I recall, the actual event in Mozambique that inspired the namesake drill involved the third shot hitting the neck.
    Excellent post. The base of the neck shot (aka "tie knot" shot) is likely to be very effective, if you can do it under stress.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  8. #53
    Senior Member Array Beans's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevew View Post
    When the pelvic bone is broken two legged mobility ceases. I am not saying the threat is over. They ain't walking no more. Just like taking out the shoulders on dangerous game, they might still be a threat, but they will be pushing with their hind legs. Not running.
    You might want to check out this tread

    Dr Fackler ML: "Shots to the Pelvic Area ". Wound Ballistics Review. 4(1):13; 1999.

    Shots to the Pelvis - M4Carbine.net Forums

  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Heat - Neil McCauley vs. Waingro @ Hotel
    YouTube - Waingro Takedown

    - Janq
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    You mean this?




    Bobo
    these were both examples of executions...not defensive shootings...

    waingro....the victim is sitting on a sofa injured...he is doubole tapped to the chest and after a long delay shot in the head in an intentional act to kill...not to stop....i'm guessing knowing yanq that it was used only as an example..as i know he is a bit more focused and careful to treat it as a necessity....

    collateral...the subject double tapped and shot in the head has already been efeectively stopped and is falling backwards from the first shot....again...he is executed with a shot to the head...the first subject was taken down with 2 shots to the chest and no follow-up..the second killed with an intentional head shot...not a necessary head shot...

    i really hope the many of you who believe an automatic double tap and head shot are necessary and enjoy posting your intention to utilize it are never involved in a real shooting and have to answer for your actions..i would be more inclined that it is keyboard bravado that makes people want to talk about how they will handle themselves than actual desire....plase be careful what you say out loud...

    loved the limo scene....you just cant get enough of hollywood shoot scenes....

  10. #55
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    I'd disagree on the Collateral clip regarding execution. BG#1 has knife and is taken down. BG #2 is reaching in his waistband for an undetermined weapon. If it was a pistol he could still get off a shot going down. I'd think I'd go for the third shot in that case.

    Remember if a GG is knocked down he would shoot from the ground, so too a BG. The thought something like this is seen as an execution (of course Cruise's character is a BG) scares men when I think of the potential jury pool. Given the furtive movement, known motivation and means I'd call it a clean shoot.

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    i really hope the many of you who believe an automatic double tap and head shot are necessary and enjoy posting your intention to utilize it are never involved in a real shooting and have to answer for your actions.


    I know what I think I would do in an SD shooting situation, but since I have never been in one, I don't know for sure. One thing I do know, it I am sure not going to post it for all the world to read.

    i would be more inclined that it is keyboard bravado that makes people want to talk about how they will handle themselves than actual desire.
    It took me about a month on this site to start discounting the vast majority of the bravado voiced herein. Posting on the Internet is great when you don't have to put up or shut up.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #57
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    Not sure how to take the reaction to my post, if it even a reaction to the post. My point is that you shoot to stop. I don't equate a head shot with execution. Once deadly force comes into play you do (and to your point God forbid the situation finds me that I hope to do the right thing) what it takes to stop somebody.

    We need to educate people to avoid these misconceptions. If somebody shoots to slide lock did they shoot him too many times? How many cops had that BS levied against them? You are justified to shoot or your not. If there is a head wound it doesn't mean de facto evil intent.

    Sorry if I'm passionate about this but our Marines fell into this trap with a JAG investigation because of all the Iraqi dead with head wounds. It was thought they were being executed. In reality most were snipers only exposing their heads and a little upper body. That's why I say let the facts of the matter speak for results rather than knee jerk reaction to a wound.

    Of course I also believe if a criminal shoots at somebody it's attempted murder, not assault. No plus points for poor marksmanship.

  13. #58
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    Presentation from concealment and concealment safety are required in the NC concealed carry course. I cover this with plastic practice guns to assess the grip, stance,and finger out of the trigger (safety aspects); then at the range the student is required to draw slowly at first and quicker as they demonstrate safe practices. Finally, using a shot timer with a set PAR time of 4 sec, they will draw from concealment and address a target at 3 yds with two in the body, one in the head using only point shooting. This way they can assess their ability to handle a stress situation
    Never argue with an idioit, he will just bring you down to his level and then beat you with experience!

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alsipd View Post
    Presentation from concealment and concealment safety are required in the NC concealed carry course. I cover this with plastic practice guns to assess the grip, stance,and finger out of the trigger (safety aspects); then at the range the student is required to draw slowly at first and quicker as they demonstrate safe practices. Finally, using a shot timer with a set PAR time of 4 sec, they will draw from concealment and address a target at 3 yds with two in the body, one in the head using only point shooting. This way they can assess their ability to handle a stress situation
    I had a VERY good CCW course and none of this was done, and I don't believe it is required either. You seriously want us to believe you get green shooters to pull this off with a little range practice? The vast majority of folks getting a CCP are not regular shooters. Unless your doing private lessons with lots of rounds down range, color me skeptical.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=msb45;1493775]My point is that you shoot to stop. I don't equate a head shot with execution.

    ... but our Marines fell into this trap with a JAG investigation because of all the Iraqi dead with head wounds. It was thought they were being executed. In reality most were snipers only exposing their heads and a little upper body.
    Yes. Words of warning.

    If Marines, who should know better, can get trapped by such blind thinking, we should be extremely aware of just how bad it can be among people who have no clue whatsoever.

    CYA -- Can You Articulate the situation, the justification, the actions you took? Falling back on training is fine, but there had better be a reason for the techniques you've decided to employ. Simply leaving it at "my training called for it" will be about as compelling, by itself, as being a Nazi guard and saying "it was my job and I was ordered to do it."

    Know what you're doing, why you're doing it, and be able to explain it to people who probably won't have clue #1 about the distinctions in a fight, distinctions in training elements.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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