Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

This is a discussion on Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have two questions: 1. From a citizen's legal CCW perspective, we are almost always behind the curve before we are even permitted by law ...

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 60

Thread: Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    314

    Question Fast draw, and why "reassess" in Mozambique drill?

    I have two questions:

    1. From a citizen's legal CCW perspective, we are almost always behind the curve before we are even permitted by law to draw our weapon, much less being allowed to legally fire on an assailant*. Therefore, I would think that the speed of our draw, no matter how Hollywoody and cowboy/westerny that may be, is probably one of the most critical skills we as civilian CCW holders could possibly have (next to shot placement). Yet I rarely see that particular skill being strongly stressed in basic CCW schools or classes, or even on the Web or in CCW books. Why is this? Is a fast draw considered too aggressive or gunfighter like, or do people simply feel that it is not needed?

    2. Also, the Mozambique drill (the "Safety Shot") is two shots to center mass, reassess, and then one aimed shot to the head. Now, I am far from a blood-thirsty person, but if my life is on the line (which is the only time I would shoot anyway), and the BG is pointing a .45ACP at me with hate in his eyes, I don't think I should wait to "reassess" for a head shot after my initial double tap. (As we all know, unlike what Hollywood screenwriters think, handgun bullets will only normally stop a BG by bleeding him out, which can take up to 10 to 15 seconds even with a direct heart shot. Experience hunters know all to well about these things better than anyone; only a deep brain shot or a hit to the upper spinal cord instantly "drops" all assailants 99.9% realiably). Therefore, my question: When you are facing eminent death, and you are legally permitted to shoot, why wait for the headshot -- why not use that third shot of the Mozambique drill immediately?

    Thanks,

    -Bill


    *Meaning that we cannot typically draw our weapon until a definitive life-and-death situation presents itself, such as when the BG draws a gun or a knife at close range. In other words, we cannot simply draw our weapon even when we are merely deeply suspicious, or even if directly threatened (unless we want to risk our CCW and/or criminal charges). LEO's obviously have a few more options than we do, and for good reason.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array Bob O's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Central, VA
    Posts
    534
    1. Initial training such as that given for the purpose of acquiring a carry permit may not cover the subject very well if at all, because safety and legal issues are the main purpose for these sessions. Subsequent, more advanced training will almost always cover the subject. I believe most 'good' trainers believe in and train fast-draw techniques. It almost goes without saying that it is a very important part of handgun self-defense.

    2. The first two shots in a Mozambique drill hopefully slows the attack giving a greater possibility of a good head shot for the third. The "reassess" just means - assess if you can get in a good head shot (may or may not be a good option) if so shoot to the head, if after assessment a head shot is not a good option put the third at COM. BTW, this is a very fast assessment - very often in a real-life situation a Mozambique could actually end up being three to COM! Certainly, any time you can get in a good head shot go for it! But head shots are very difficult on fast moving targets, especially if you are also moving as you should be.

    Bobo
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
    ~John Adams

  3. #3
    PM
    PM is offline
    Senior Member Array PM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    670
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    Also, the Mozambique drill (the "Safety Shot") is two shots to center mass, reassess, and then one aimed shot to the head.
    I was taught that you shot till the threat is stopped in my class therefore the reasses is "is the BG moving?" If "NO" threat is stopped. If "yes" shot till the threat is stopped. That may be two more to COM. It maybe one to the head. It maybe two more to COM and one to the head. My thought is the threat is not stopped it 1) the gun is still pointed at me or mine 2) the BG is still upright and moving in a manner that is a threat to me or mine. While not formilar with the drill, other than it being two to the chest and one to the head, I do not think that the reassess period is stated in a time frame.

    THe rule in Kansas is shot till the threat is stopped.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    okla
    Posts
    4,298
    1. From a citizen's legal CCW perspective, we are almost always behind the curve before we are even permitted by law to draw our weapon, much less being allowed to legally fire on an assailant*. Therefore, I would think that the speed of our draw, no matter how Hollywoody and cowboy/westerny that may be, is probably one of the most critical skills we as civilian CCW holders could possibly have (next to shot placement). Yet I rarely see that particular skill being strongly stressed in basic CCW schools or classes, or even on the Web or in CCW books. Why is this? Is a fast draw considered too aggressive or gunfighter like, or do people simply feel that it is not needed?
    In most cases a concealed holster does not offer its self to a fast draw. It is normally hidden under clothing which will impede the speer of the draw. You should practice this but in the real world you will always be starting after the threat has shown its self.

    When you are facing eminent death, and you are legally permitted to shoot, why wait for the headshot -- why not use that third shot of the Mozambique drill immediately?
    A head shot on a moving object is much harder to make than one to center of mass. You shoot for the largest target first. When a hunter shoots at a dangerous game animal that is charging do you really think he's going for a head shot? No hes looking for the shot that will be the most likely to make contact. A missed head shot would mean his own death. You break down the charging animal first and then finish it off.

    Michael

  5. #5
    Member Array gunsite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    122
    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    In most cases a concealed holster does not offer its self to a fast draw. It is normally hidden under clothing which will impede the speer of the draw. You should practice this but in the real world you will always be starting after the threat has shown its self.



    A head shot on a moving object is much harder to make than one to center of mass. You shoot for the largest target first. When a hunter shoots at a dangerous game animal that is charging do you really think he's going for a head shot? No hes looking for the shot that will be the most likely to make contact. A missed head shot would mean his own death. You break down the charging animal first and then finish it off.

    Michael
    I agree apparel is a variable people tend to overlook when talking about reaction, center mass... or biggest target area available would be the shot to take under stressful conditions. Movement will save your life and should be your first reaction.

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Metro Detroit Area
    Posts
    1,716
    animals and humans are different though.... I wouldn't try to compare a Charging Bear at 35mph with a human that has a weapon(gun,knife,bat,etc)

    Depending on the situation in both cases are the deciding thing. IF you can wait for the BG to be diverted then draw on him that is better. But if you are the target he has picked then yes you better be able to get your weapon out and on target faster than he can get you.

    As for the "double tap" I think I would just keep shooting until the threat stopped being a threat to me, (human or Bear) because you won't be able to tell if the BG's momentum is moving him forward and you did hit him, or your 2 shots missed and he still is really coming at you.

    The only time (depending on the situation) I would stop shooting is when the threat is CLEARLY not a Threat anymore.
    NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G18CFw0lnD8

    Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.

    If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,801
    I think all the "reassess" stuff is PC. When I first heard it, it was "2 ta the chest and one ta the head", now it's "2..., reassess, 1 ...". I've also heard someone in the SD business basically say the "reassess" is if you have a target when you reacquire your sight picture, shoot. Same with shoot to stop, if you think about it, the only way to really stop someone, whether they want to stop or not, is for them to bleed out about 4 pints or a CNS shot. If you start shooting someone, you should be able to dump numerous rounds in them before they can think to audibly surrender or they drop to the ground due to gravity. Keep shootin' until you don't have a viable target any more.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    ... the speed of our draw ... is probably one of the most critical skills ... Yet I rarely see that particular skill being strongly stressed in basic CCW schools or classes
    I have had it mentioned in a few classes. It's not stressed in brief seminars, I am sure, since it takes relatively long time to acquire a smooth and fast draw from concealment. That's what dry-fire practice is for.

    I have also seen it in some books, though I'll grant it doesn't seem to be the primary topic. Access to the firearm, ability to present quickly, the whole "quick-draw" mythic history surrounding the firearm. Each of these things is generally touched on, sure. But, stressed as a primary skill? It doesn't seem to be stressed.

    Certainly, with IDPA, IPSC and other competitions, it certainly is a much-lauded skill and can have a solid impact on one's time if it's fouled.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    In most cases a concealed holster does not offer its self to a fast draw. It is normally hidden under clothing which will impede the speer of the draw. You should practice this but in the real world you will always be starting after the threat has shown its self.
    Yes. Due to the statutes and our starting behind the curve, it's entirely likely for a draw to be part of a whole array of movements thwarting the initial attack. Which training courses stress which elements does vary. Witness the Suarez force-on-force school, or similar. The "draw" is merely one element of the defense.


    the Mozambique drill (the "Safety Shot") is two shots to center mass, reassess, and then one aimed shot to the head.

    I don't think I should wait to "reassess" for a head shot after my initial double tap.
    That's 2 + 1. Not, 2 + 1 + languidly-reassess.

    The way I have always been taught to interpret the skill was: (2 + 1); (2 + 1); (2 + 1), for as long as it takes to stop the threat, as expeditiously as I am able to effect. The point being, you never know what it'll take to stop a given threat, so you continue until it's stopped. Reassessment is for afterwards, after the threat is ended.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  9. #9
    Member Array OldLincoln's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    471
    The CAR videos sure don't assess or re-asses, they just do it. The more I learn the more I think if I have to shoot, I'm in for a penny in for a pound. I won't shoot if the BG drops his weapon, but if I do have to shoot, I won't know the threat is neutralized until the BG is down - hopefully both of us still alive.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,759
    Practice proper and consistent holster presentation and the speed will follow. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #11
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    188
    Reaccess after two isn't about PC, it's about multiple threats and ammo conservation. The Mozambique drill was devloped from combat experience. You shoot to stop not kill.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Array Armydad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    553

    Smile

    Zacii is right on for the practice. Legally you have to be careful how you shoot and/or are perceived to shoot. In many courts if it is established that you used the Mozambique drill you will go to jail for murder. That drill has only one purpose and that is to kill. As self defense shooting is to stop the aggressor with killing as the last resort. You obviously have to practice the head shot because it is the last defense that you have if the perp does not go down. But, it should be absolutely the last option presented or you will have bubba for a room mate for a long time.

    Armydad

  13. #13
    VIP Member
    Array Thumper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    7,315
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Practice proper and consistent holster presentation and the speed will follow. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
    YUP!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Armydad View Post
    That drill has only one purpose and that is to kill. As self defense shooting is to stop the aggressor with killing as the last resort.
    The opinion that a three-shot spread to a deadly attacker is designed to kill is merely that, an opinion. IMO, it's fantasy.

    Fact is, my decision to carry a defensive firearm is to stop an deadly attack against me or my loved ones if one should arise. My goal is to stop the attack. I don't want to kill anyone. I don't even want to be attacked, but nobody will have asked me that during one. I have trained with several instructors who introduce various methods and techniques, and I train with certain portions of techniques learned from such instruction as I find most effective and compatible with my limitations, skills. And I'll stop once I have determined the deadly attack has been halted.

    Reality is, it's already acknowledged via the statutes that by employing a firearm one is employing lethal force. Dead is dead. The risk exists from any given shot. Yes, two or three shots raises the odds of stopping an attack; and, yes, a perfect shot through the heart or head raises the odds, as well. I, for one, can't "call" the location of my shots, and I certainly won't be able to under duress. While I might agree that it's an interesting claim a prosecutor might make, I wholly disagree that such multi-shot situations WILL result in being legitimately jailed for murder.

    No matter how many shots are employed, and no matter where they strike a deadly assailant, the fact is that if lethal force is justifiable then whatever degree of force necessary to stop the attack is justified.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    6,237
    Quote Originally Posted by Armydad View Post
    Legally you have to be careful how you shoot and/or are perceived to shoot. In many courts if it is established that you used the Mozambique drill you will go to jail for murder. That drill has only one purpose and that is to kill.
    Have to disagree with you there. The "Mozambique Drill" is aka the "Failure to Stop Drill." If the two shots to COM do not stop the attack (as evidenced by the attacker falling down and not being in your sights anymore) then you immediately transition to the head shot (more accurately a "face" shot).

    With practice, this is so fast that you will likely get all 3 shots in before the BG even starts to hit the floor. This does not change the fact that the intent is to stop the threat - if he dies as a result, oh well...

    At contact distance you are better served by the "Zipper Drill" anyway. You start firing as soon as your gun clears the holster and is pointed at the attacker. The muzzle flip is used to your advantage as you fire a vertical string of shots up the target's centerline. The shots typically are groin/belly, low chest, center chest, high chest, neck/face. This maximizes the probability of severing the spine, and shutting the attacker down.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, Mini 14; Marlin 336 .30-30; Mossberg 500
    CT Lasers

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. What are your "hard, fast" rules?
    By JohnK87 in forum Carry & Defensive Scenarios
    Replies: 58
    Last Post: July 19th, 2010, 12:31 AM
  2. FAST Drill
    By NC Buckeye in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 18th, 2010, 10:07 PM
  3. "Blind fire" drill
    By General Geoff in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: May 27th, 2007, 12:26 PM
  4. A True Texas Tale: "Bad Guy" "One", "Old Man" "Zero"
    By Rock and Glock in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: March 17th, 2006, 09:50 AM
  5. "This guy just had a quicker draw", aka doesn't pay to beat your g/f
    By SGeringer in forum In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: June 25th, 2005, 06:20 AM

Search tags for this page

ccw draw techniques
,
ccw quick draw
,

concealed carry draw technique

,
concealed carry fast draw
,
concealed mozambique
,
fast draw techniques
,
has the mozambique drill actually been used
,
mozambique draw
,

mozambique drill

,
mozambique drill ccw
,
mozambique drill legality
,
tom cruise mozambique drill
Click on a term to search for related topics.