February 9th, 2010 02:36 PM
For those who are inclined to make a "citizens arrest," here are some suggestions:
1. It should not be cast as a citizens arrest, but only detaining until LEO arrives.
2. There should be any detaining unless you witness a felony in progress such as robbery, burglary, or rape.
3. Save the CCW, CHL (or whatever you call it) announcement until you are asked by LEO or the law requires disclosure.
4. By all means take caution to assure that you are not shot by LEO when they arrive.
Live every day so that you can, with a clear conscience, look all men in their eyes and tell them to go to hell.
February 9th, 2010 02:41 PM
Just smoke them in the grape with a blackjack and leave them outside to sleep it off.
Whats with this arrest stuff?
February 9th, 2010 02:41 PM
What's the difference?
Originally Posted by SIXTO
February 9th, 2010 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by MikeFontenot
Detention is holding of a person.
Arrest is charging a person with a crime.
Detention by LEOs is normal such as when you are stopped for a traffic violation and requested to voluntarily submit to questioning and/or road side sobriety analysis.
Arrest is a legal result imbued as a power only to persons who have government allowed and supported law enforcement powers.
Such as when a LEO arrests and charges you with disorderly conduct or operation of a motorized vehicle while under the influence/intoxicated.
Citizens have no power to "arrest".
The term "Citizens Arrest" is really meaning to 'arrest' as in to reduce, as to detain.
If for any reason some fool, and I use that in the technical manner of speaking, were to run up on me for any reason yelling "Citizens Arrest!"...I would both laugh and leave. Try to stop me and that person(s) had better be packin' a lunch.
This is a double edged sword that can and at times does cut both ways as the allowance toward CA activity is narrow and subject to interpretation by a jury in both criminal and civil court. As without the broad protections that police have in relation to commission of their job (!).
Citizens Arrest is just a hairs width away from kidnapping; Which itself is by definition dis-allowance of a persons right to move about freely. No physical force of restraint need be involved either toward kidnapping nor removal of a person from where they were confronted.
Just holding a person in a place as against their will/desire to leave/flee/escape well meets the legal definition of kidnapping.
Like most everything else in adult action life it's all relative, situational and a matter of perception as well as perspective...and judgment.
I am not a LEO and thus won't be attempting to arrest anyone. Period.
Equally if said person is anything but a LEO, I am and would advise said person(s) to go pound sand....and arrest them self.
Lay a hand to me, or get in my way, so as to delay or stop me and I will respond in kind equally as though being assaulted, kidnapped or impeded as in any other unlawful manner of action & being. Whihc is _exactly_ what I would tell a responding LEO and/or judge if not jury thereafter.
Also after the fact I will not fold either, and will come after you through the civil courts to the best of my ability as to my own defense (!) by way of offense. That's me.
Others have done same, and they win.
Tread lightly and know what you are doing as well as getting into.
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie
Citizen's arrest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Legal Definition of Citizen's Arrest
'Attempted Citizen's Arrest Of Karl Rove'
YouTube - Attempted Citizen's Arrest Of Karl Rove
'How to Make a Citizen's Arrest'
YouTube - How to Make a Citizen's Arrest
'Cop wins a long fight - copsatwork.com'
YouTube - cop wins a long fight - copsatwork.com
<Imagine a so called CA type person trying to 'arrest' (detain) this person. This is a LEO for real, not Joe Blow with a morality attitude and possibly a badge he ordered off of e-Bay>
Good luck with that.
P.S. - Criminals don't have second thought to fight a cop much less multiple of cops upon real detention, and/or arrest.
Why any citizen would think a felony degree level criminal (!) who just committed a _felony_ crime would submit to a civilian with no badge, no backup, no powers, no nothing is beyond me.
The real and modern world is not like that of docile friendly Otis the town drunk and Mayberry R.F.D., where the sheriff carrys no gun and his 120 lb. deputy carrys a revolver though with just one round...as kept in his breast pocket.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
February 9th, 2010 03:31 PM
Detaining is holding in place for LEO to take them. Arrest involves taking them against their will. Ie, for you and me they call that kidnapping.
Originally Posted by MikeFontenot
One thing to consider. if you get into a position where you draw your firearm and the guy goes completely compliant before you shoot what do you do? I think this info is good to know. Like a lot of other things we learn here, you hope to never use it. But you need to know if you can hold the guy at gunpoint, since you have already drawn, until the LEO gets there. It would be a very unusual scenario for me to put myself into someone else's situation to do this. But if I am the one being assaulted, it's good to know that I can detain them with appropriate force till the LEO arrives. My .02.
February 9th, 2010 03:51 PM
Timid people sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
February 9th, 2010 04:25 PM
Free coffee at the donut shop.
Originally Posted by retsupt99
Les Baer 45
N.R.A. Patron Life Member
February 9th, 2010 05:21 PM
If I'm remembering correctly, 'arresting' someone in some areas also implies a certain level of responsibility for a person. For example, if an officer were to arrest and cuff someone who subsequently ran into traffic and got hit by a car, the officer would have some level of fault in that action.
Whether I recall that correctly or not, I'd prefer to avoid the situation entirely!
February 9th, 2010 05:30 PM
Generally, there is a severely limiting set of circumstances and stout requirements for behavior, in a situation in which a citizen's arrest is being made.
Detaining is holding in place for LEO to take them. Arrest involves taking them against their will.
Here's the deal: the other person is a citizen, as well. (Unless he/she is an undocumented, illegal sort, of course. Though, you won't know that.) That means, he/she has as much right as you, to everything, including liberty, including being protected against illegal search/seizure, illegal arrest, and the whole can o' worms. Taking away the rights of a citizen is a BIG deal. Our society doesn't allow that to be done lightly. You'd better have your legal cap strapped on tightly, before attempting.
Situations such as stopping a violent felony, of course, are a bit different. But then, it's not "citizen's arrest" that you're doing, when attempting to stop such a crime right in front of you. In such a case, you're not taking control of that person's liberties; rather, you're simply stopping the violent crime. Big difference.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
February 9th, 2010 06:30 PM
February 9th, 2010 07:58 PM
CCW9mm, just trying to simplify it as much as possible. The link I posted earlier goes into the difference between detain and arrest for the NC law. I don't see myself doing something like this unless it's in addition to having to draw my weapon to defend myself or someone else. For example, a BG tries to rob you with a knife, if you draw and can get him on the ground you can hold him for LE. It's VERY limited set of circumstances where this type of things would be used IMO. Depending on the circumstances you may be comfortable holding the BG for the LEO instead of high tailing it out of there. It pays to know whether or not you can do that within the law of your state.
February 9th, 2010 09:34 PM
Chiefjason makes some valid points..Detaining a bg is not on my list off stuff to do ..but it does not hurt to know the laws of the land and think thru it ..just in case..we never know what tommorrow will hold
February 9th, 2010 09:48 PM
There was a cop show I watched that the officers asked the GG to make a citizen's arrest and instructed him how to do it as he went. The officers had not witnessed anything and they needed him to do that if they were to take immediate action against the BG.
It has it's place but I would have no idea what is proper to do. Isn't detaining someone as a private citizen tantamount to it? I have read of more than one here holding someone - or saying they would - for the cops under the threat of death - gun drawn on them. That seems like a lot bigger legal liability than just uttering the words and hoping they comply and wait for the police to show up.
February 9th, 2010 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by SIXTO
February 9th, 2010 11:03 PM
Dive, that war a gooder!
Originally Posted by Divebum47
"The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2
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