"Citizen's Arrest"?

[aznav]

Hmmm, just to clarify. I have no intentions of arresting anyone, except my development. Just curious if it was an urban legend or "legit". Even that is up for debate.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Janq]

Hmmm, just to clarify. I have no intentions of arresting anyone, except my development. Just curious if it was an urban legend or "legit". Even that is up for debate.

Nope, it's real.

January 27th, 2010, 05:08 PM
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...samaritan.html

Just generally not advisable for a wide variety of reasons.

- Janq

[Intrepid]

I make detentions on a regular basis. I work in loss prevention and bring shoplifters back into my office until a LEO arrives.

[DaiUy]

1. First time, almost. Walking near Rittenhouse Sq, central Philly in 1968, about midnight. BG walks up to me and pulls out a gravity knife, flicks it open and says "give me your cash you white MF" (I'm not exactly white) - it was icy cold and I had my hands in the pockets of my old field jacket. When my .38 S&W cleared my pocket the BG dropped the knife and took off. I think I scared him as in 1968 few people in Philadelphia had CCW permits so muggers usually felt safe. I still have the knife and carried it during two tours in Vietnam. As I drew my first thought was see what he does as I don't need the paperwork!

2. Second time. Again in central Philly around 5pm at 6th and Chestnut in 1970 or 1971. A young Philly cop was fighting on the ground with a BG. The cop lost his pistol and the BG took off in the opposite direction. The cop looked around for his weapon and yelled someone stop him. The sheep just stood around and I chased the BG, who became visibly exhausted. As he was ready to fall over I grabbed him from behind and pushed him against a wall. The cop caught up about 30 seconds later with drawn pistol and took over.

Because the BG fled or the cop arrived rapidly I did not have to think of CA rules. In #2 I was not armed with a pistol which popped into my mind as I grabbed the BG from behind.

There were some beneficial results from #2 but I wasn't thinking about benefits at the time.

DaiUy Joe

[stevem174]

[QUOTE=Biloxi Bersa;1489242]Here's Gomer Pyle doing a "citi-zin's arrest" on Barney Fife!

I can't help but think about that show every time this topic comes up.

[Censored]

Back in the 60's I was responding to an alarm at my business. It was about 3AM. LEO's were on the way. I cautiously ran several red lights on the way. I noticed a car following. When I arrived at the warehouse a guy got out of his car yelling he was making a citizens arrest. About that time the cops arrived and he whined to them about my traffic violations. I identified myself to the cops. They put him in the back of their patrol car until they cleared the building. Then he was taken into custody for interfering with police. Moral: mind your own business.

[razor02097]

Soooo... I can see a citizen's arrest in the following scenario...


BG breaks into a house, home owner grabs SD gun and holds burgler at gun point till cops show up.

Otherwise leave it to the LEO. That is what they are paid to do.

[Quicksabre]

Make sure you're wearing your cop pants, web/utility belt, and handcuffs. All that gear makes it okay to do cop stuff. Really.

[rico68]

Detaining is holding in place for LEO to take them. Arrest involves taking them against their will. Ie, for you and me they call that kidnapping.

Originally Posted by MikeFontenot View Post
What's the difference?

Be careful with this one. Don't just rely on the Webster's definition, go straight to your state's statutes. The above is NOT true in Minnesota. For legal purposes in MN they are just about the same. Here if a a "reasonable person believes they are not free to leave" you have arrested them. Arresting here doesn't have anything to do with charging someone. MN has a pretty liberal citizen's arrest situation for any public offense, all the way down to a petty misdemeanor if conducted in your view all the way up to a felony, even if just suspected.

[razor02097]

Be careful with this one. Don't just rely on the Webster's definition, go straight to your state's statutes. The above is NOT true in Minnesota. For legal purposes in MN they are just about the same. Here if a a "reasonable person believes they are not free to leave" you have arrested them. Arresting here doesn't have anything to do with charging someone. MN has a pretty liberal citizen's arrest situation for any public offense, all the way down to a petty misdemeanor if conducted in your view all the way up to a felony, even if just suspected.

like if someone catches a shoplifter in a mom and pop shop?

I can see holding someone if a crime is witnessed but arresting because of suspition is illegal anywhere last I heard.

[rico68]

like if someone catches a shoplifter in a mom and pop shop?

I can see holding someone if a crime is witnessed but arresting because of suspition is illegal anywhere last I heard.

Correct on the mom and pop shop. Loss prevention folks at stores (private citizens) are technically "arresting" someone in MN when they hold a shoplifter until police arrive. Any private citizen has the same authority.

As for arresting someone on suspicion... it happens every day in every state in the country. Until proven guilty, all you are is suspected. But to the point of citizens arrest, in MN "a private person may arrest another when a felony is committed and the arresting person has reason for believing the person arrested to have committed it."

That's why I said in my earlier post to be careful with definitions and what you think a law is until you check your own state's laws.

All that said, I wouldn't be out and about looking to for opportunities to perform citizen arrests. And using your CCW gun to do it is very likely to land you in jail in MN. CCW and citizens arrests have NOTHING to do with each other here.

[Saber]

I’m blessed with having problems come to me in the mail, over the phone, while I’m driving or even following a date. As such, I try not to invite additional burdens onto myself. I’ve decided if I find myself in a situation whereby I preempt a BG from doing something, he/she may leave on their own accord. I’m not necessarily inclined to hold a person at gunpoint, or otherwise detain them until the Calvary arrives.

[Hopyard]

I’m blessed with having problems come to me in the mail, over the phone, while I’m driving or even following a date. As such, I try not to invite additional burdens onto myself. I’ve decided if I find myself in a situation whereby I preempt a BG from doing something, he/she may leave on their own accord. I’m not necessarily inclined to hold a person at gunpoint, or otherwise detain them until the Calvary arrives.

Bingo. Right answer.

AND,

"Originally Posted by chiefjason
Detaining is holding in place for LEO to take them. Arrest involves taking them against their will. Ie, for you and me they call that kidnapping. " Here if a a "reasonable person believes they are not free to leave" you have arrested them"

Ask OJ the difference between detaining someone, arresting them, and kidnapping!!!!

AND

To the loss prevention guy who takes people to the back office--

Ask OJ the difference between attempting to recover your own stuff and kidnapping.

[Janq]

Yeah, being a Loss Prevention 'agent/officer' as in direct on the job employ is not at all the same specific condition (per state to state variable laws) as that of being...
Joe Blow walking along and finding a BG breaking into someones car or snatch & grab of a purse, only to have J.B. attempt to pull a 'Citizens Arrest'.

"HALT! I compel thee to STOP as thine art under arrest! Arrest by I, the Citizen."

Also toward the post earlier about a TV cops show where the LEO directed a civilian to do a CA because the cop could not. That crook was dumb as a box of bricks.
Putting on my criminal person flat brimmed hat for a moment; I as a civilian am not by any law required/mandated to recognize a citizen as having any power of detention/arrest what so ever!
To me you are just Joe Blow...Not a patrolman. You are a nobody. Literally.
You can sat what ever words you want at me but I am not obliged to listen, comply nor respect your wishes no matter how commanding in manner you might make them. I can by all rights choose to walk if not run off of you and go about my 'business'. You are a nobody.

Had I been that TV crook I would have laughed at both the citizen and the patrolman noting the Catch-22 situation they are in, and by all rights well within my right as a citizen walked/run/driven away leaving them both with empty hands.

- Janq

[Majorlk]

"HALT! I compel thee to STOP as thine art under arrest! Arrest by I, the Citizen."

Do you live in Amish country?