The Real Reason " Does the punishment fit the crime"

This is a discussion on The Real Reason " Does the punishment fit the crime" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In cases of indisputable evidence, either video, multiple eye witnesses, DNA, or confession, the guilty party need to go directly to jail, wait 30 days ...

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Thread: The Real Reason " Does the punishment fit the crime"

  1. #31
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    In cases of indisputable evidence, either video, multiple eye witnesses, DNA, or confession, the guilty party need to go directly to jail, wait 30 days to give them time to think about their crime.

    At the end of 30 days, 2 concrete bricks, one on each leg. 10 miles out to sea, and man over board.

    No grave to memorialize the perp, no cost for undertaker, nothing left of his rein on Earth except a birth and death certificate.

    Z
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

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  3. #32
    Member Array msb45's Avatar
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    On vacation in Colonial Williamsburg I got to tour the courthouse. They had some laws that should come back. If caught stealing or for murder you could plead for the mercy of the church. You were branded with a T or M and you walked.

    Every criminal caught was checked for a brand. Second time around you got hung, end of story. Think of how much we'd save on parole officers alone!

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    First, I'm always amazed when I see this subject brought up. It amazes me that so many people do not seem to realize how many of the people around them have been in prison, jail, etc. in the past..... or are on parole or probation. Many more than most people think. They paid their dues, and there is nothing "nice" about prisons ..... where just about any perceived disrespect can get them beat up / hospitallized and or killed any moment of any day or day of the weak.

  5. #34
    Member Array coriantan's Avatar
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    There are too many laws on the books. There are over 10,000 ways to commit a felony! Let's clean up the books, and actually ENFORCE the laws that ARE there! There are so many dumb laws and so many others that are not enforced it's ridiculous.

    Yes, plenty of people in our current society have been to jail/prison and have "learned their lesson" but most would have learned their lesson faster, and BEFORE commiting crime, by having stricter laws that are actually enforced.
    ~Coriantan~

    "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." * "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

  6. #35
    Member Array coriantan's Avatar
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    someone mentioned that in "civilized society" we shouldn't have the death penalty.

    If you believe in God, then kill them all and let HIM sort it out.

    If you don't believe in God, then why would you want to leave those scum alive in a "civilized society?" They aren't the kind of people who contribute. Kill those who have irrefutable proof against them, and put the rest in for life without parole.
    ~Coriantan~

    "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away." * "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

  7. #36
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    Nothing nice about prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    First, I'm always amazed when I see this subject brought up. It amazes me that so many people do not seem to realize how many of the people around them have been in prison, jail, etc. in the past..... or are on parole or probation. Many more than most people think. They paid their dues, and there is nothing "nice" about prisons ..... where just about any perceived disrespect can get them beat up / hospitallized and or killed any moment of any day or day of the weak.
    I agree, Eagleks. THere is nothing nice about prison. I've been inside one--of course I could leave, thank goodness. Nothing nice. There may be some decent minimum security places, but the medium and maximum places are in no way nice.

    Also, 1% of us are in prison at any one time (3 million). Some estimates I've seen had as many as ca. 30% of the adult population as having at least been in jail at one time or another. Some folks who have generally lead exemplary lives end up in prison for one reason or another, and they are no danger to anyone.

    Some should never be let out, and many should never have been put in, in the first place. If violence or very large sums of money are not involved, there is probably a better way to deal with the convict.

    I think we do a lousy job of discerning between the truly dangerous who should be put away forever or executed, and the folks who just do stupid stuff but are not truly bad/evil people.

    Two examples--with nearly identical situations:

    1) Two teens stole a bicycle from my garage (burglary of a habitation). They were obviously dangerous kids but we couldn't prove it was they who did it, so they weren't arrested. Their next crime was robbing a pizza delivery guy at gun point.

    2) Two teens played hooky from school and stole a bicycle from my garage. They were just two dummies who cut school and were out fooling around. Probably they didn't know at all that this was considered, "burglary of a habitation," and was a serious felony. So two stupid 16 year old get charged with an adult crime and severely punished over theft of a bike I'd have given them for free if I had noted their interest in it.

    (I still leave my garage door open. There's nothing in there worth anything anyway, which is why incident number two was sort of a tragedy to watch.)

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    A couple of points come to mind on this issue:

    1) More stuff is illegal in the US than anywhere else in the world - I don't have a source for this but I heard it on the radio and having lived in Europe for a year, I believe it. We have more criminals than anywhere else because we criminalize trivial things. I think this has something to do with the lax prison conditions as well - if you're throwing everyone in jail, not just the ones who deserve it, you can't really make it that tough now can you?


    Edit: What I'm saying is that in addition to punishments being way too lax for certain crimes, they're way too stiff for others. In both cases, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. What we really need is some re-prioritization.


    The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.


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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    First, I'm always amazed when I see this subject brought up. It amazes me that so many people do not seem to realize how many of the people around them have been in prison, jail, etc. in the past..... or are on parole or probation. Many more than most people think. They paid their dues, and there is nothing "nice" about prisons ..... where just about any perceived disrespect can get them beat up / hospitallized and or killed any moment of any day or day of the weak.
    My thoughts on that are...

    It's these scumbags who make the system such a horrible and dangerous place to begin with. They are not paying their dues they are reeking havoc while serving time. Serving their dues would be entering prison and becoming a model inmate and not assaulting staff and other prisoners.

    And yes, they walk amongst us and it's what makes our society dangerous.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  10. #39
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coriantan View Post
    someone mentioned that in "civilized society" we shouldn't have the death penalty.

    If you believe in God, then kill them all and let HIM sort it out.

    If you don't believe in God, then why would you want to leave those scum alive in a "civilized society?" They aren't the kind of people who contribute. Kill those who have irrefutable proof against them, and put the rest in for life without parole.

    I'm the one who wrote that.

    The problem is, what do we define as irrefutable evidence? Plenty of people have been sentenced to death with what was thought to be irrefutable evidence at the time only to be overturned later. Even more by overzealous prosecutors who played the system to get someone convicted. Once someone is put to death, there's no do-overs.

    We never know who or what's going to be in power and when you or I may end up on the wrong side of the gavel for something we didn't do. Do we really want to give that power to the government when we can't predict where the line of irrefutable evidence is drawn? I think that as CC-ers the possibility of being wrongly accused is higher too.

    Our country and our justice system was designed such that individual rights prevail over group rights. Our courts are designed with the idea that it's better to set 10 guilty free than convict 1 innocent. Saying, kill 'em all, let God sort em out to me is a gross violation of those principals and in effect, reversing it to say it's better to convict 10 innocents than to let 1 guilty off.

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msb45 View Post
    Every criminal caught was checked for a brand. Second time around you got hung, end of story.
    An effective two-strikes policy. Absolutely.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array DIABLO9489's Avatar
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    If you have been arrested 15+ times by the time you are 25 years old you will be removed from the planet. Problem solved. I can't tell you how many " customers" I've dealt with at work that have 50+ arrests. Tell me how a person like that is not a drain on society?
    P.S. When you ask for ID they never hand you a drivers license, learners permit, or college ID.... It's always a government issue benefit card...
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  13. #42
    Member Array ZombieShoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davensquirt View Post
    We carry to protect, ourselves and our loved ones. Just curious,do you think that there would be as many crimes committed in society if our laws were stronger regarding the punishment fitting the crime.
    You can make laws as strong as instituting the death penalty for every crime and criminals won't stop.

    The criminal believes they won't get caught.

    Also if our prison systems would truely rehabilitate inmates, versus coddling them, by giving them the creature comforts Cable TV, Smut, the ability to work and not work, constitutional rights, etc.
    This is a myth. Prison is not the five star hotel. It's not even the one star motel.

    They don't have cable tv, smut, and they will work unless on medical, confinement, or some other specials (like death penalty cases).

    Their constitutional rights are basically dropped to nothing. The 8th Amendment is probably their strongest right.

    I am not trying to be a nob about this but come on, our society is rapidly declining and it's only going to get worse.

    We are a civilized society, but look at countries that still have the King of Kings Laws, Eye for and Eye, Life for a Life etc.
    Until society changes nothing will change.

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Criminals will do crimes no matter what. Laws are to keep "honest" people "honest". Criminals don't give a hoot if they break the law... they are criminals thats what they do. The only people "fixed" by the justice system is the "honest" people.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  15. #44
    New Member Array Devil Doc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davensquirt View Post
    How is this a violation of there rights, the individual stole a vehicle and got caught, just another tax burden.
    Sorry, I ment to add a sarcasm icon with my comment. But you're right.

  16. #45
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    Originally Posted by Devil Doc
    I was watching TRU tv today; thugs were stealing bait cars and when busted they were laughing. Better still, some expressed, "I didn't do anything!"
    Piss on 'em... or not. That's cruel, unusual and a violation of his rights...

    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    Could you translate this for me??????


    Z
    TRU tv is a channel that has alot of caught on camera criminal stuff. I find it hilarious. The local cops would set up a "bait" car (a car designed to be stolen, after which the engine would halt a few minutes after starting and lock the punk inside.) and a hidden video camera tapes it all.

    My "piss on 'em" comment was from the heart. The rest was ment with sarcasm.

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