LEO Encounters and Firearm Inspection

LEO Encounters and Firearm Inspection

This is a discussion on LEO Encounters and Firearm Inspection within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; We've seen posts in this space relating encounters with law enforcement personnel, and the experiences have run that gamut from LEO's who didn't seem to ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Wes Kenney's Avatar
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    LEO Encounters and Firearm Inspection

    We've seen posts in this space relating encounters with law enforcement personnel, and the experiences have run that gamut from LEO's who didn't seem to want to know about a concealed weapon to Treo's accounts of people being planted face-down on the pavement and disarmed even though they were carrying legally.

    A couple of days ago, I was re-reading my state's law, appropriately entitled the "Self-Defense Act" (SDA). It requires licensees to notify LEO's that we're licensed and carrying, but I noticed in that section a provision that hadn't caught my attention before:

    TITLE 21 § 1290.8.E. Nothing in this section shall be construed to authorize a law enforcement officer to inspect any weapon properly concealed without probable cause that a crime has been committed.
    Unless "a crime" could be read to include the speeding or other moving violation for which one was initially stopped, it seems to me that our legislators in Oklahoma have cleverly included in the law language that would prohibit these "worst-case-scenario" type of disarmings of legal carriers. I've been stopped twice while carrying, and in both cases, the officer simply asked about the location of my weapon, and that was it. I now understand that he's prohibited by law from going further than that unless he has reasonable cause to believe I've committed a crime.

    I offer this simply as a suggestion, either to find out if your state's laws contain a similar provision, or perhaps to lobby for one if they don't.
    He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

    - Luke 22:36 (ESV)


  2. #2
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    Yes, how does OK define "crime"? I would hardly think a stop for speeding could be considered a crime and the firearm had nothing to do with the speeding.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array elkhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Yes, how does OK define "crime"? I would hardly think a stop for speeding could be considered a crime and the firearm had nothing to do with the speeding.
    Uh yah, by my recollection, a "traffic offense" is not a "criminal offense".

    just my 2 cents.
    It’s so much easier now days, to "Love and honor" my wife, when she is armed, and shoots a better group than I do. (Till death do us part, eh?)

    “The way you get shot by a concealed weapons permit holder is, you point a gun at him,” the Sheriff said.

  4. #4
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Wes, excellent point on OK law.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    In Colorado the police have the right to disarm you during a traffic stop and they can inspect the bore on any long gun to make sure you aren't carrying a round chambered (poaching law)

  6. #6
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    Some traffic offenses are criminal offenses, depending on state law. It may depend on what the legal definition of a 'crime' is for this particular statute...
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

    Retired LEO
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  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    Good info Wes
    Always put Jesus first in your life.
    NRA (Lifetime Member)
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    "Inspecting" your weapon and removing it from you for the officer's safety (stated reason) may not mean the same thing. I think the safest thing is to not handle it more than needed- if they remove it from the holster, don't point it at anybody and don't try to unload it. Best is to remove the whole package, holster and all.

    In any case, you comply with the officer's directions and take up any issues with the supervisors later.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array BigStick's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like another one of those laws that is marginally enforced and not widely known. I like the intent, but I wish the lawyers and politicians would be more clear on some things. On the other hand, there is probably a very specific definition of "crime" we just don't know it, or know where to look.
    Walk softly ...

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    A traffic infraction is a violation, a misdemeanor and a felony is a crime.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  11. #11
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    This situation depends entirely on the state that you are in and they are all different.

    This state allows me to inspect ANY firearm that I encounter. If I want to run a number on it I have the legal means to do so.

    Does this mean I'll do it? It depends on the circumstances.
    If I stop you for a violation and you tell me that you are carrying concealed(as the law here requires) I doubt that I waste any time with it.

    If I stop you and I find out that you have a drug history or warrants or anything that seems out of place ,or even if I have a "gut feeling" that something isn't right, and you have a gun, you'd better believe that I will check the numbers on it to make sure it isn't stolen.

    I have recovered a few stolen guns over the years, but I must admit, none of them were from "model citizens". All of them were during DWI stops, or other circumstances such as domestic disputes, suspected burglarys or a multitude of other things that required action by police.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array Agave's Avatar
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    SCOTUS said that an officer has the authority to frisk for weapons with reasonable suspicion that a crime is afoot and that the individual is armed.
    The preceding post may contain sarcasm; it's just better that way. However, it is still intended with construction and with the Love of my L-rd Y'shua.

    NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, Tennessee Certified Instructor

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    This might just be me and others might disagree, but when I get pulled over, no matter in what state, I am going to tell the officer first thing that I have a weapon and its right here. I keep both hands on the wheel and my wallet is already out so I dont have to reach anywhere. I hand him/her my license, CPL, registration, and insurance. This has only happened once in my life while carrying a weapon and nothing came of it. The LEO asked again where it was, I told him, he handed me back my insurance and CPL.

    I think its smart to declare to a LEO that you are armed when being pulled over. No surprises, thats how they like it.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger View Post
    This might just be me and others might disagree, but when I get pulled over, no matter in what state, I am going to tell the officer first thing that I have a weapon and its right here. I keep both hands on the wheel and my wallet is already out so I dont have to reach anywhere. I hand him/her my license, CPL, registration, and insurance. This has only happened once in my life while carrying a weapon and nothing came of it. The LEO asked again where it was, I told him, he handed me back my insurance and CPL.

    I think its smart to declare to a LEO that you are armed when being pulled over. No surprises, thats how they like it.
    This is how I look at it, no harm, no foul on either part in my book.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    As an LEO, I can tell you that their is a certain level of anticipation when approaching a car after a stop. We all want to go home at the end of trhe day. My advice is for the driver of a car stopped to make the officer feel comfortable with them buy illumininating the interior lights of the car if dark outside, keep both hands in plain view, relax and be as friendly as possible. Also never lie about anything as this is a pet peeve with most of us. I have let and numerous people off due to the fact that I did not feel like they were trying to BS me. Personally, if someone tells me they are a ccw holder right off the bat, I am satisified with that. As far as a crime, any violation of the law is a crime. 15 miles over the speed limit is considered reckless driving and you can be arrested for that in my state. Most officers at least in my state are happy about our good citizens carrying, one of these days we may need their help, you never know...just my opinion.

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