Road Rage - Page 11

Road Rage

This is a discussion on Road Rage within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Charges are still very possible - the prosecutor simply released him and ordered the police to obtain more statements and investigate further. They put out ...

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  1. #151
    LLT
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    Charges are still very possible - the prosecutor simply released him and ordered the police to obtain more statements and investigate further. They put out notice that they are looking for more witnesses, so I suspect the witness stories aren't adding up.


  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackg View Post
    I live about 30 miles north of Detroit, MI. and on Sat. night there was an incident not too far from us that I thought you all would be interested in.
    It was 10:30 and a Father and his 2 sons were leaving one of those C J Barrymores entertainment facilities. As they pulled out onto a 3 lane highway three guys in a truck tried to drive this guy off the road. He got back on the road and continued on to the next stoplight where he got out of his car, went to the drivers side window, had a few words with the driver and went back to his car and got in. The next thing he knows the 3 guys had exited their truck & were trying to get into his car. He felt that he & his son's were in immediate danger of being harmed, so, he took out his gun and shot one of the guys dead. Then, he left the scene and at the same time called 911, told them what had happened and asked what he should do, 911 said to pull over, stop & wait for the police to show up. The guy did have a CCW. Since it was Sat. the guy had to be locked up until Monday morning when it would be decided if charges would be filed.
    In today's paper, they followed up and it seems the police interviewed 18 witnesses who verified the story the shooter gave the police and so he was released because the prosecuter said there was no reason to charge him.
    I was jumpin' out of my chair, finally the law did the right thing & I feel bad the guy had to spend the week-end in jail. Can you imagine all the thoughts that ran through his head during that time?
    Comments?

    Their always more (facts) to a story, but he escalated (incited) the fight by getting out of his car and approaching the truck with three occupants.

    The three individuals driving away from the CCW person is like them pulling a knife out, threatening to do harm, then turning and walking away from the CCW person, but the CCW person pursuing the knife wheeling individuals to confront them. You'll have a tuff time in court trying to justify shooting someone when you (CCW person) were the person inciting/confronting/escalating/pursuing your targets/target. If the individuals ran the CCW person off the road and then got out of their truck and approach the car, now the situation changes.

    What would we be talking about today if the CCW person took down the licenses plate, called 911, and followed the truck at a safe distance or disengaged pursuit.

    Here's a different situation but the concept is the same... two Philadelphia off duty police officers are facing dismissal and criminal charges for shooting an individual paralyzing him which lead to his death three months later. Why??? because his kid got ruffed up and his pizza was taken.

    When your carrying a weapon (anyone) you can NOT make emotional decisions, they must be made tactically and/or within the LAW. PERIOD.

    After you read the article ask yourself what would of happen if the officers (off duty) call for ON-DUTY officers and handle it within proper guidelines and official procedures.

    DO NOT let your weapon give you TOMBSTONE COURAGE.

    2 Phila. officers to be fired in deadly shooting | Philadelphia Inquirer | 02/13/2010

  3. #153
    Member Array Sledzep01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Hmmm.... I am NOT defending his actions of getting out of his car. I am not saying it was right of him and I would not have done that.

    But for those saying he instigated it by getting out, I don't see it that way. They instigated it by running him off the road.

    That's my opinion, and i'm no expert, lawyer, or LEO.

    And once again for the record, I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
    They drove him off the road you said...
    He should have stayed off road, readied his weapon, protected himself and family as best he could and called 911
    Period.

    Sled

  4. #154
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    there's street law... . You know the " playground " "street corner stuff"..... WELL HE STARTED IT!!!... and then there's COURT LAW.

    If a person walked towards you (arguing)... and at 30-40 feet and pulls a knife (threatening you), then turns away (ending aggression) and walks away from you... and you pursue him... and then the confrontation escalates to where you have to shoot/kill him, you then become the aggressor carrying a deadly weapon.

    If you CC, you have to start looking at things/encounters/confrontations/deadly force from a court room's stand point according to state laws/guide lines, not from a street law point of view of... IF HE STARTS IT... I'LL FINISH IT.

    GET TRAINING.. Learn the do's and don'ts while carrying a weapon, and i guarantee NO trainer will tell/train you to... follow the vehicle, walk up and approach the vehicle at the next stop/availability and ask with their problem is... A Police officer shouldn't do it either unless they have OFFICIAL BACK-UP.

  5. #155
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    With my luck, if I did something like the father did in this case, I would be charged and Nancy Pelosi's breakfast club buddies would be my jurors!!!
    NRA life member.

  6. #156
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    He has the responsibility to abide by the statutes concerning CCW in this situation. It could be questioned that he instigated the retaliation from the other's, thereby making his use of deadly force unjustified. The fact that they ran him off the road is not a defense for him approaching the other vehicle and instigating an altercation. Running him off the road did not instigate the altercation. He did by approaching the other vehicle. IMO opinion, he was not justified in using deadly force, because he is the one that instigated an altercation. This also demonstrates his lack of self control to the point of causing his sons to be placed in danger. I think he is very lucky the DA did not pursue this.

  7. #157
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sledzep01 View Post
    They drove him off the road you said...
    He should have stayed off road, readied his weapon, protected himself and family as best he could and called 911
    Period.

    Sled
    Do you know if that was possible? I'm not familiar with the highway/road in question, but I generally feel that the side of the road is not a safe place to be, inside a car or otherwise. In fact, the city of Houston agrees with that idea and have made any car idle on the side of the freeway a hazard and give tow-trucks the right to tow it.

    For all we know, the guy didn't want to sit on the side of the road until the next drunk swerves off the road and collides into them. We don't know either way. Heck, we don't know how long he sat on the side of the road. He could have sat there for a minute before continuing on, and he just happened to catch up to the truck at the next light. Since we don't know the facts, I don't think we should assume anything.

    Now if he would have honked his horn, and the 3 guys got out and tried to assault him, is he still "escalating"? If he gives them the finger, yells out his window without leaving his own vehicle... I mean, where do we draw the line at "escalating"? Like others have said, some people view eye contact as a threat and a reason for violence.

    And I see some people suggest he should follow them and get their information, but what if the 3 guys in the truck see him follow them and feel that HE caused the incident on the road. They could attack him then, and I'd bet some of us here would blame him for following in the first place.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Do you know if that was possible? I'm not familiar with the highway/road in question, but I generally feel that the side of the road is not a safe place to be, inside a car or otherwise. In fact, the city of Houston agrees with that idea and have made any car idle on the side of the freeway a hazard and give tow-trucks the right to tow it.

    .
    but you feel that leaving your vehicle attended by children in an intersection while you confront 3 men in a pickup truck is a good idea and safe?...

    if youre gonna use a statement to argue you might want to look at the whole picture....

    and i doubt the city of houston would allow towing a vehicle with a family in it who are on the phone with 911 calling in a traffic concern...it would be interesting to see....and when somebody gets a flat tire in houston do they get towed off the side of the road while the car is on the jack?...

  9. #159
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    The best gun fight you can be in is the the one you CAN avoid.If my life is not in eminent danger not to mention the kids in the car.The BEST thing to do is put your ego in your back pocket and go on your way.I don't believe it will be all to good for this guy in the long run.We are held to a higher standard-like it or not-as gun owners.

  10. #160
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    Bottom line is that if the shooter maintains anything other than "he was in fear for his or his kid's life" and the facts at the scene don't back his side, he will be charged. Conviction is another story. In MI you do not have a duty to retreat and castle doctrine is recognized, you also can't escalate the situation without being somewhat responsible for the outcome.

  11. #161
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    but you feel that leaving your vehicle attended by children in an intersection while you confront 3 men in a pickup truck is a good idea and safe?...

    if youre gonna use a statement to argue you might want to look at the whole picture....
    I've stated it was a bad idea to do so, but to say he should have sat on the side of the road isn't the best advice. That's the point I was trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    and when somebody gets a flat tire in houston do they get towed off the side of the road while the car is on the jack?...
    City of Houston eGovernment Center

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    Do you know if that was possible? I'm not familiar with the highway/road in question, but I generally feel that the side of the road is not a safe place to be, inside a car or otherwise. In fact, the city of Houston agrees with that idea and have made any car idle on the side of the freeway a hazard and give tow-trucks the right to tow it.

    For all we know, the guy didn't want to sit on the side of the road until the next drunk swerves off the road and collides into them. We don't know either way. Heck, we don't know how long he sat on the side of the road. He could have sat there for a minute before continuing on, and he just happened to catch up to the truck at the next light. Since we don't know the facts, I don't think we should assume anything.

    Now if he would have honked his horn, and the 3 guys got out and tried to assault him, is he still "escalating"? If he gives them the finger, yells out his window without leaving his own vehicle... I mean, where do we draw the line at "escalating"? Like others have said, some people view eye contact as a threat and a reason for violence.

    And I see some people suggest he should follow them and get their information, but what if the 3 guys in the truck see him follow them and feel that HE caused the incident on the road. They could attack him then, and I'd bet some of us here would blame him for following in the first place.
    I "feel" that there is always enough time to let a light change so as I do not meet up with people like that again.
    Could he not see the light? I bet he saw the truck a good 50 yards away. He could have slowed and caught the next light.
    Was there a turn/driveway/extended breakdown shoulder between him and the next light? Again, no reason to catch the truck.
    Am I missing something? (maybe) So lets say he CANNOT not catch up to the truck, he must catch up... He still got out of the car and confronted them.
    As others have said, he is now the aggressor. My bet is jail time unless the other 3 are already BG's with assult arrests or something like that.

    I hope I do better than he if it ever happens to me.

    Sled

  13. #163
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    Carrying a conceal weapon mixed with road rage is worst than carrying a weapon mixed with drinking. Never let emotions dictate your reactions or overcome your TACTICAL SENSE.

    Be discipline, be on defense not offense, defuse a situation not escalate one, learn danger signs, don't not let a situation overcome you, you overcome the situation, if you HAVE a choice to shoot or escape... you escape... if you HAVE a choice to shoot or retreat... you retreat... if you have NO CHOICE... YOU SHOOT.

    ROAD RAGE is never a good thing... even if your LE.

    Police Chief Investigated In Road Rage Incident - Nashville News Story - WSMV Nashville

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I find it interesting that people feel that there is any constructive way of dealing with reckless drivers, or road rage drivers.

    They dont give a damn that they did whatever they did. Or, they dont even realize it...and in our society, even if they understood why you honked, gestured, etc, they'd just dismiss it as not their fault.

    The only reason to react at all is out of your own indignation or for your own ego. You are not preventing anything else, or educating those people. You are not doing any 'civic duty.' That is the police's job.

    Correction: there is a constructive way of dealing with them...stay out of their way and call 911 with their license #.
    +1! Could not say it any better.
    "The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left." Eccl. 10:2

  15. #165
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    I don't think it is a crime to get out of your car to confront someone for trying to kill you and your two sons. Might not be the best way to handle the situation but not a crime. However, trying to get into someones car when it is occupied with your children is worse and probably would be a crime and cause to get your butt shot.
    Could have been avoided. You can also say that to the guys who got shot.
    "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"
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