Road Rage

This is a discussion on Road Rage within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; It's called "escalation." Eliminate any part of it and the incident goes away, as does eveyone involved. They are all perportionally involved and responsible....

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  1. #16
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    It's called "escalation." Eliminate any part of it and the incident goes away, as does eveyone involved. They are all perportionally involved and responsible.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
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  3. #17
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    My point exactly. Original incident escalated into a shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX-JB View Post
    I think it depends on state law. They almost ran him off the road. That's one incident. He got out of his car and had words with the other driver, then returned to his vehicle, this is the 2nd incident. The 3 in the other vehicle got out of their truck and attempted to assault him and his kid by entering the car, that is the third incident. Each is a separate act. That what allows this to be considered a justifiable shooting...
    I respectfully disagree. Each of the incident components did not happen in a vacuum.

  5. #19
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    As a private citizen (CCW) your best tactical move should always be to defuse a situation, escape, retreat, ignore, IF POSSIBLE. DO NOT escalate a situation, DO NOT let your weapon give you GUN MUSCLES, (reason to pursue confrontation).

    Its just not worth it.

  6. #20
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    Seems to me he was asking for trouble.. He got mad, and got out of his car and confronted them... They did the same thing

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I have to disagree. By getting out of his vehicle and confronting the guys, he instigated the incident.
    Quote Originally Posted by BmDubb View Post
    Seems to me he was asking for trouble.. He got mad, and got out of his car and confronted them... They did the same thing
    Depends what was said, how it was said, etc. I haven't read anywhere that the driver (with son) "got mad" or "confronted" anyone. Depends on what was said. Discussion, questions, etc. need not be confrontation, escalation. Apparently, the 18 witnesses supported the testimonies of the active parties.

    I mean, in the USA we are all taught to speak with the other driver in case of accident, crash, or other such situations. There are few details, here, as to whether there was any of that; whether the cars touched; whatever. All we're left with is that he spoke with the offending driver, after which the three attacked him and his son.

    I'll grant that, in this day and age, the man must have been out of his mind to get out of his car while his son was with him. Given what lunatics are prepared to do, you've got to be nuts to do it.

    Now, instigation and escalation are tricky things. You've actually got to NEGATIVELY contribute to a situation and INFLAME the situation, in order to be instigating anything. Simply speaking to the other party is not, in and of itself, instigation or escalation of anything.

    What I'm getting at is like what occurs at your mailbox at the front of the driveway, when you come out to ask the rock-throwing teen what he's doing tossing rocks at your mailbox. If at that point, the teen decides your speaking to him offends his sensibilities and he attacks you, what possible instigation or escalation was done on the part of the citizen? Again, it depends wholly on what was said, how it was said, the intent of what was said.

    There can be a BIG difference between instigation and inflammation of situations, versus simply seeking to clarify, make a request, whatever. That murderous idiots exist in the world doesn't change the fact that an otherwise benign act should not, by itself, be construed as instigation of anything.

    JMHO.

    Note: I am not supporting or defending the actions of either party. I am simply offering up the questions as food for thought, to consider what might be true in the absence of absolute fact about the situation.
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  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I have to disagree. By getting out of his vehicle and confronting the guys, he instigated the incident. I can see where he'd be liable for a lawsuit if nothing else. Shotgun reaction, could have been avoided if he'd just stayed in his car and let it go.
    Instigation can t be determined by walking to there vehicle because we don t know why he went to there window. We have a good idea but can t testify as to what his thought s were. Me personally I would not have. Call 911 then give em a tag # but nobody is DEAD! There are obviously still alot of unknowns.
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  9. #23
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    IMHO, as soon as he got out of his vehicle he became the aggressor. The road rage was over with and he was not in fear for his life at that point. I think he's lucky that he's not getting charged.
    aznav likes this.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    IMHO, as soon as he got out of his vehicle he became the aggressor.
    Recall the "mailbox" example, above. Exiting a car and speaking with someone does not mean "aggression" existed in that discussion on the part of the party who started the discussion. It depends utterly on what was said, how, and the motivations.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  11. #25
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    Bad deal! I don't agree with his (the shooter) escalating the situation further. He could have called 911 from the get go with a description and maybe plate #'s if he could get them and what happened, where, and all that, as it was quite clear reckless endangerment just occured with the 3 stooges. Drunk? maybe endangering others? I think he played LEO. Also 2 sons with him, geez! I hope he learns from all this.

  12. #26
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    He would have been better off staying in his vehicle,but when he was attacked by 3 guys,not just one then he felt threatened and used justifiable force to stop the threat.We have no Idea what was said.but apparently the DA after looking at witness statements decided it was justified
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  13. #27
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    As far as getting out of his car and FIRST and instigating a fight (if he did or not remains an unknown fact, but obviously the three guys took it as that) was the wrong move. However, if someone accidental ran me off or even purposely ran me off the road, I would have been on the phone with 911 and reporting a possible DUI suspect, getting the police involved immediately. If I pulled up next to them and they wanted to "chat" then it would be through my window. NEVER EXIT YOUR VEHICLE UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY! He put himself and his family in imitate danger.

    If the situation was different in the fact that he just pulled up next to them, they exited their vehicle and tried assaulting the guy, then a justified shooting is warranted to protect himself and his family. But since it went down like this, he is lucky he wasnt charged with at least voluntary manslaughter. He is lucky if nothing else happens in this case.

    This should be an example to all of us who legally carry a weapon, to keep a calm cool state of mind in a potentially dangerous situation. He could have simply ignored them, called the police and let them handle it. The vary least everyone probably would have gone home at the end of the day.

  14. #28
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    Everyone is right on about his getting out of the car as a big mistake. If you are in your car you drive to the police station and honk your horn like crazy if your potential adversary is staying on your tail; keep driving around the parking lot if you can and keep honking. Odds are, once you get to the police station, the slime will have slid back to his hole and left the scene.If somehow the slime kept at it and manages to stop you from moving and starts to get out of his car, then it is a different story.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsite View Post
    As a private citizen (CCW) your best tactical move should always be to defuse a situation, escape, retreat, ignore, IF POSSIBLE. DO NOT escalate a situation, DO NOT let your weapon give you GUN MUSCLES, (reason to pursue confrontation).

    Its just not worth it.
    10-4 and +1...

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Recall the "mailbox" example, above. Exiting a car and speaking with someone does not mean "aggression" existed in that discussion on the part of the party who started the discussion. It depends utterly on what was said, how, and the motivations.
    I still think it's an aggressive gesture regardless of what was said. I seriously doubt he was thinking about inviting them over for tea when he got out of his vehicle.

    They still had no right trying to get into his vehicle after the fact so I don't blame him for defending himself, but avoidance/retreat/de-escalation would of been a better course of action. Get their plate number, call 911 and drive away or to the police station.

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