Road Rage

This is a discussion on Road Rage within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I would not rest easy that this is over if I were him. Was he justified WHEN he shot the guy? Undoubtedly. I think the ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array SentryOne's Avatar
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    I would not rest easy that this is over if I were him. Was he justified WHEN he shot the guy? Undoubtedly. I think the shooting would have been avoided if he had not gotten out of his car to confront them though. The system is geared toward avoidance and passive inaction. It's unfortunate because you'd hope that action, not inaction, would teach these guys a lesson but we are not here to take the law into our own hands or teach lessons. I don't know guys. I'd be interested to hear how this plays out if this isn't the end of it.

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  3. #32
    Member Array Alf87's Avatar
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    I understand your analogy with rocks thrown at the mail box and getting out of your vehicle to confront another driver. However, I respectfully disagree that handling the rock throwing situation is the same as the road rage incident. More then likely we're going to know the teen in our neighborhood throwing rocks. As adults and parents I think it's normal we would go out confront children who are throwing rocks. Of course, I know this isnt the case in all neighborhoods but fortunately I can say it is in mine, I'd confront the kid. If I lived in a questionable neighborhood, I would more then likely call the cops and let them handle it. I believe what current environment you find yourself in would dictate your actions.

    As for a road rage incident, you have no idea who the person or persons are in the vehicle and what they're motives, mental status or criminal intentions may be. The best course of action would be for me to always get the vehicle info and call it in to 911. I'm not going to take a chance in escalating a situation into something that could threaten my 2 sons in the car.

    That's my .02 on it

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by naking View Post
    I respectfully disagree. Each of the incident components did not happen in a vacuum.
    No, they didn't happen in a vacuum, but they are considered separate incidents within the same situation. They are like chapters in a book and it does make a difference...

    Here's another scenario... You and your 6 yr old daughter are leaving the movies. All of a sudden some 18-20 yr old male comes by walking very quickly. He doesn't notice your daughter, knocks her to the ground, she starts crying, and he keeps going like nothing happened. You turn and say in a loud voice, "Hey, watch where you're going", then turn your attention to your daughter. The male turns around and says you can't talk to me like that and pulls a knife. You hear his voice, look up see the knife and fearing for you and your daughters life, you pull your gun, shoot and kill him.

    Since the incident didn't happen in a vacuum and using your definition of 'escalation'... You're going to prison...

    If you hadn't escalated the situation by saying something, he would've kept walking and nothing would've happened...

    Using my definition, and that of the DA wherever the incident occurred, you're justified and going home...
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  5. #34
    Member Array 9mmPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    I would gladly spend a weekend in jail if the alternative was several decades, being shot, or being killed. In fact, I think it is almost expected in many legit self defense shootings.

    As for his actions, I hold myself to a higher standard than that. Getting out of the car invites trouble. That being said, it appears his actions were not criminal
    not really , getting out of the car give you more room to defend.

  6. #35
    Member Array hardcase67's Avatar
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    I'd be willing to bet this is not over yet. Without the CCW I would bet he would not of exited the car to confront a truck with 3 guys in it.

    Al

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    This is a case of if the shooter had stayed in his truck and did not do any thing to keep the road rage going no one would have died. When you have a ccw you need to let some things go. I'm still glad the guy got off but this should have never happened. This was a fine example for his two sons to witness. He is lucky things didn't go the other way and he ended up in jail or one of his kid got hurt.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardcase67 View Post
    I'd be willing to bet this is not over yet. Without the CCW I would bet he would not of exited the car to confront a truck with 3 guys in it.

    Al
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  9. #38
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    Escalation in not your friend in any shooting...
    He would have been better off driving away while on the phone.OMOYMV
    He'll be lucky if he is completely cleared. Did the fat lady sing yet?
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  10. #39
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackg View Post
    He got back on the road and continued on to the next stoplight where he got out of his car, went to the drivers side window, had a few words with the driver and went back to his car and got in.
    The truck left the scene and left him on the side of the road, unharmed. Danger to him and his passenger no longer existed. By following them and accosting them, he then instigated the incident where lethal force was necessary.

    I'm afraid that if I were the DA, he would have been facing a manslaughter charge.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  11. #40
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
    OK, the father was stupid for getting out of his car to share his thoughts with the occupants of the other vehicle. However, he did that without violence and returned to his vehicle. At that time, it was over. Either or both parties could have simply gone on their own ways.
    Not knowing exactly what was said, this is an invalid assumption.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fastk9dad View Post
    I still think it's an aggressive gesture regardless of what was said.
    Implication vs Inference. Depends where and when the aggression, intent lay. Might well be utterly mistaken in that inference. We don't know, from this vantage point.

    (Although, like any eye contact being taken as a "diss" in the "hood" by hoodlums there, many people get bent by any such contact, however innocent its intentions might have been.)

    If aggression isn't part of the gesture, then inferring such a thing is mistaken, thus any subsequent aggressive acts based on that mistaken inference stand alone as unjustified and unprovoked.

    If aggression is part of the gesture, particularly if the party intends to be aggressive, to inflame, to anger, then there is absolutely escalation. Though the subsequent aggression (by the three) isn't hardly justified, it does cut the legs from under any claim of necessity on the part of the "defender" who shot the "attackers."

    Though, none of us knows what occurred here, without more detail. All we've got is that (a) he's been released after (b) 18 witnesses corroborating the "defender's" explanation of the events and justifiability.
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  13. #42
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    Somehow I don't think that this incident is cut and dried...me thinks there is more legal baggage yet to float to the surface.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by simon View Post
    Somehow I don't think that this incident is cut and dried...me thinks there is more legal baggage yet to float to the surface.
    You are most certainly right, he might as well get ready for the lawsuits. If he has ownership of any real assets or liquid assets he can kiss them goodbye. From what I have read, if you are involved in a shooting in a state that does not have the castle doctrine You can be found not guilty in the crimnal court and these clowns can still sue you in civil court and even if they don't win you still have to have an attorney to represent which can cost ten of thousands of dollars depends on how long the case is drawn out which is MESSED UP in my opinion.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    But for those saying he instigated it by getting out, I don't see it that way. They instigated it by running him off the road.

    That's my opinion, and i'm no expert, lawyer, or LEO.

    And once again for the record, I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.
    I agree, he did not instigate it but he did have a part in escalating it rather then just letting it go. One of the lessons I learned in the CCW class and life in general is just let the idiots of this world go. It's not worth getting aggravated over, there are just to many of them and you'll always be annoyed.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Alot of unkowns here, but after he was run off the road, he proceeded to the next light and got out of his vehicle and went to thiers.

    After the first incident, (assumption) he/they are no longer in danger, if they were why would he have left his vehicle/kids and went to the danger. This will be very damaging in court.

    Regardless, and there is no good argument against this from what information we have, he could have called 911 (he obviously had a cell phone as he called them from his car after the shooting) and advised authorities of his/thier location with the plate # and truck description and explanation of what happened after the first incident and he was following them.

    His goose may well be cooked in a trial, which is probably where this will go.
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