Road Rage

This is a discussion on Road Rage within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live about 30 miles north of Detroit, MI. and on Sat. night there was an incident not too far from us that I thought ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array jackg's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Road Rage

    I live about 30 miles north of Detroit, MI. and on Sat. night there was an incident not too far from us that I thought you all would be interested in.
    It was 10:30 and a Father and his 2 sons were leaving one of those C J Barrymores entertainment facilities. As they pulled out onto a 3 lane highway three guys in a truck tried to drive this guy off the road. He got back on the road and continued on to the next stoplight where he got out of his car, went to the drivers side window, had a few words with the driver and went back to his car and got in. The next thing he knows the 3 guys had exited their truck & were trying to get into his car. He felt that he & his son's were in immediate danger of being harmed, so, he took out his gun and shot one of the guys dead. Then, he left the scene and at the same time called 911, told them what had happened and asked what he should do, 911 said to pull over, stop & wait for the police to show up. The guy did have a CCW. Since it was Sat. the guy had to be locked up until Monday morning when it would be decided if charges would be filed.
    In today's paper, they followed up and it seems the police interviewed 18 witnesses who verified the story the shooter gave the police and so he was released because the prosecuter said there was no reason to charge him.
    I was jumpin' out of my chair, finally the law did the right thing & I feel bad the guy had to spend the week-end in jail. Can you imagine all the thoughts that ran through his head during that time?
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  3. #2
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    I have to disagree. By getting out of his vehicle and confronting the guys, he instigated the incident. I can see where he'd be liable for a lawsuit if nothing else. Shotgun reaction, could have been avoided if he'd just stayed in his car and let it go.
    aznav likes this.
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    He's lucky he's out. He got out of his car and initiated the incident. If he had stayed in his car to start with he'd not of killed someone and spend a couple of days in jail.
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    Hmmm.... I am NOT defending his actions of getting out of his car. I am not saying it was right of him and I would not have done that.

    But for those saying he instigated it by getting out, I don't see it that way. They instigated it by running him off the road.

    That's my opinion, and i'm no expert, lawyer, or LEO.

    And once again for the record, I'm not saying it was the right thing to do.

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    He's lucky he did not get shot himself, and lucky the DA didn't think he instigated the incident.
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    I would be surprised if that case has been closed. Leaving his car was not a wise move. Criminal charges may be filed later and even if they aren't there will likely be civil litigation.
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    I would gladly spend a weekend in jail if the alternative was several decades, being shot, or being killed. In fact, I think it is almost expected in many legit self defense shootings.

    As for his actions, I hold myself to a higher standard than that. Getting out of the car invites trouble. That being said, it appears his actions were not criminal
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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    It's potentially touchy, but I don't read his approaching their car as 'instigating the situation'. Didn't help to cool things off, but even if he threatened to harm them, they didn't suddenly gain any right to break into his car once he retreated to it.

    Reverse the situation: if a belligerent driver came to your window and (worst case I can think of) threatened you, would you be justified going back to his car and trying to get into it?

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    Distinguished Member Array mr.stuart's Avatar
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    He got out of his car to 'prove' something. Give them a piece of his mind or some immature macho stupidity like that. He is very lucky to stay out of prison and he may be on the wrong end of a civil suit. I do not feel sorry for him.

  11. #10
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    Personally, I'm not going to get out of my car, no matter how much I want to, if someone cuts me off, especially if I'm carrying and I have family in the car. Sounds like his temper took over at the light. If it was me and I was cut off, then I need to be the responsible one and let it go (no matter how pissed I am). If I decided to get out of the car and confront the person then I just escalated things to a higher possible threat level for both parties.

    I'm sure it's just the beginning for this guy legally. I wouldnt want to be in his shoes at the moment knowing I had a part in escalating the incident resulting in a shooting.

    Carrying is a serious responsibility and we all need to try and anticipate possible outcomes for any actions we may take in situations. Granted, some decisions we make are in a split second but this guy had plenty of time to think of what he was going to do at the next light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    But for those saying he instigated it by getting out, I don't see it that way. They instigated it by running him off the road.
    If he had stayed in his car, the event would have mostly likely been over. But he provoked their retaliation, and the whole thing could have been over with had he kept his cool and let it go to begin with. I'm pretty sure in Fl he'd be facing charges.
    aznav likes this.
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    Member Array Rivers's Avatar
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    OK, the father was stupid for getting out of his car to share his thoughts with the occupants of the other vehicle. However, he did that without violence and returned to his vehicle. At that time, it was over. Either or both parties could have simply gone on their own ways.

    When the other occupants left their vehicle, they started another incident to which the father responded justifiably by shooting to stop the threat, then retreating and calling 911. This is what the DA looked at when deciding that it was a self defense incident.

    The message here is that it is a lot easier to let something go (or contact those who are charged with keeping order in society) than to endanger yourself and others because your pride got bent.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    Who would get out of their car at 10:30 pm and leave two children in the car to go do anything on a public highway or street? Much less go confront three dudes who may be baiting him into a robbery. Not for me.

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    I want to know what the father said. The entire story hinges on this fact.

    Sit 1: He goes to the truck and says "excuse me sir, I highly doubt you did it on purpose, but you ran me and my family off the road back there almost causing an accident. Please be a little more careful."

    Sit: He goes up to the truck and says a bunch of stuff I would get a warning for saying on here, shouting and gesturing wildly.

    Now I do not think he should have gotten out of his car and said something. I would have written down the plate number and description of the truck and called the police to let them know he was run off the road. If it were Sit. 1 he did not go looking for trouble, mearly to alert the driver of a dangerous situation. The truck driver could have let that go with a "Thanks" or simply ignored him.

    Even if it were situation 2, and he went looking for trouble, the truck driver was not justified in his exiting his vehicle and trying to enter the father's. Same as a dog attack. Do you fire at the charging dog, or do you wait till the dog stops, turns around and walks away to fire ?

    IMHO there were better ways it could have been handled, but given the "facts" we know, I think he was justified.

    But as I was writing this, Rivers said basically what I was thinking.
    Either or both parties could have simply gone on their own ways.
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    I think it depends on state law. They almost ran him off the road. That's one incident. He got out of his car and had words with the other driver, then returned to his vehicle, this is the 2nd incident. The 3 in the other vehicle got out of their truck and attempted to assault him and his kid by entering the car, that is the third incident. Each is a separate act. That what allows this to be considered a justifiable shooting...
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