Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry?

This is a discussion on Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by jem102 Oh come on..."its not him" its the complaints from other patrons as I stated , and then the person involved becoming ...

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Thread: Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry?

  1. #76
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    Oh come on..."its not him" its the complaints from other patrons as I stated , and then the person involved becoming obstinate. This person carries himself and that's why he gets my business. Like it or not no man is an island unto himself in the US populace anymore and the armed lifestyle is not the norm.
    NO, 2-3% of the population base is not going to force feed the other 97% a belief or self pronounced norm that is enigmatic to their lifestyle and/or what they think is proper conduct as concerns themselves and family.
    "I" will be thankful for 10 unposted businesses that allow CC VS 1 that allows OC with 9 posted against any day! As our numbers grow the opportunities will increase to present our case...unless we are so busy sticking our finger in everyone's eye today we can't get a respectful hearing if and when we get to 20% of the population base.
    1. I am not "force feeding" anyone. I wear an object on my belt.

    2. 2-3% of the population MAYBE Open Carries. I'll bet it's closer to 1/2 of 1%. And there is not 97% of the population upset about it. I may "cause concern" in maybe the 5% of people that are vocal about it, and, unfortunately, some of that crowd are concealed carry only. That leaves about 94.5% of the population that either just don't care or don't notice.

    3. How do you propose we get to 20% of the population base by continuing to pay the state a tax to be able to have the privilege to hide our guns away so that they don't "bother" anyone? How is that going to "get to" anyone?
    Last edited by JD; February 14th, 2010 at 02:37 PM. Reason: Addressed via PM.

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  3. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    Like it or not no man is an island unto himself in the US populace anymore and the armed lifestyle is not the norm.

    NO, 2-3% of the population base is not going to force feed the other 97% a belief or self pronounced norm that is enigmatic to their lifestyle and/or what they think is proper conduct as concerns themselves and family.

    "I" will be thankful for 10 unposted businesses that allow CC VS 1 that allows OC with 9 posted against any day!
    Yes, I could not have said it better myself. Unfortunately, the OC folks will never quite understand any of this; but I guess, one way or another, we all live in our own little wishful-thinking worlds. It's just the way people are...

    -Bill

  4. #78
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    1. I am not "force feeding" anyone. I wear an object on my belt.

    2. 2-3% of the population MAYBE Open Carries. I'll bet it's closer to 1/2 of 1%. And there is not 97% of the population upset about it. I may "cause concern" in maybe the 5% of people that are vocal about it, and, unfortunately, some of that crowd are concealed carry only. That leaves about 94.5% of the population that either just don't care or don't notice.

    3. How do you propose we get to 20% of the population base by continuing to pay the state a tax to be able to have the privilege to hide our guns away so that they don't "bother" anyone? How is that going to "get to" anyone?
    1. That is a totally inane response with a loaded pistol under your immediate control.

    2. 2-3% of the population base licensed to carry (I should have stated that). WAY less than .5% of that number open carry.
    Let's go with your 5%. regardless of the demographics that make it up it was more than enough to overturn a law passed by the state legislature. So the 94.5% quite apparently are not going to vote for it either still leaving current numbers to carry the day.

    3. I propose to get the 20% and more by the same means we have gotten the privilege to carry in many states that did not even have it a few years ago. That being constant pressure steadily applied through the vote, keeping gun clubs and firing ranges open and above all bringing people into the shooting sports. If all a person wants to do is shoot trap the simple fact that they own a firearm is enough for me as that makes them think twice about ill conceived firearms legislation. Over the past 18 months the applications for permits have risen so much the state departments struggle to keep up. Every new license (state revenue & jobs), handgun purchase (jobs, tax-sales & income), state mandated carry class (state revenue, jobs, tax-sales & income) makes the legislature take a second look. You seem to be using the "free zealot" approach (no disrespect intended) so what is the fastest way to stir people to action...TRY TO TAKE SOMETHING AWAY THEY ALREADY HAVE...with every permit issued that clan grows ever stronger. The state House and Senate representatives see the numbers as it directly applies to their districts and above all they want to keep their offices.

    YES, I am more than happy to pay my state tax to keep my hidden weapon on my person. So "I" have the tool needed if and when that is the only option remaining. It is "little thing" when compared to the ability to protect me and mine...in the shadow of that they are all "little things." So yes I "will" hide my gun away with the fervent belief that there are others of the same persuasion and that number is growing.

    The "right VS privilege" seems to be bone of contention so we have to agree to disagree here but I hold my course of action to be viable in a country that already legislates morality in many forms as the one that will take us forward in the current political climate.

    Your comments are appreciated.
    Last edited by JD; February 14th, 2010 at 02:38 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post.
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  5. #79
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    Its interesting that if someone has a badge next to their gun everyone automatically thinks law enforcement and nobody freaks out. However if a person sees another person with a gun strapped to their belt with no badge they may or may not freak out.

    Funny how a gold plated piece of metal can make such a huge difference in the perception of someoene with an openly carried sidearm.
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  6. #80
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    Your comments are appreciated.
    I guess it depends on how you want to bring about political change. Do you want to bring it about by paying (obtaining a concealed weapons permit) the State to hear your voice? Or do you want to bring about political change by showing that Americans are concerned about their rights and that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for an American to have the FREE ability to have the means available to protect themselves.

    This country did not gain it's independence from England by paying their taxes. We gained our independence by freely expressing our RIGHTS.

    I have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. I exercise that oath every time I walk out of the house expressing my RIGHT to carry a firearm freely, carrying it in a manner that does not require paying the State for permission to do so.

    AND, I have, in fact, acted for political change in the method you suggest as well, I do in fact have a Washington CPL. I just choose, most of the time, not to exercise that privilege which in states such as Texas and Oklahoma completely deny the right of their citizens to FREELY provide for their own self protection - in public anyway.

  7. #81
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I guess it depends on how you want to bring about political change. Do you want to bring it about by paying (obtaining a concealed weapons permit) the State to hear your voice? Or do you want to bring about political change by showing that Americans are concerned about their rights and that it is perfectly normal and acceptable for an American to have the FREE ability to have the means available to protect themselves.

    This country did not gain it's independence from England by paying their taxes. We gained our independence by freely expressing our RIGHTS.

    I have taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC. I exercise that oath every time I walk out of the house expressing my RIGHT to carry a firearm freely, carrying it in a manner that does not require paying the State for permission to do so.

    AND, I have, in fact, acted for political change in the method you suggest as well, I do in fact have a Washington CPL. I just choose, most of the time, not to exercise that privilege which in states such as Texas and Oklahoma completely deny the right of their citizens to FREELY provide for their own self protection - in public anyway.

    Very good. I believe we both seek the same ultimate goal that being the ability for ourselves and our families to walk our streets in safety and have a government for the people by the people. We will each work it from our varying views and I wish you well.
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  8. #82
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    I use to feel that people that OC wanted the attention it brought. I have a few friends that OC and when they'd come around, if you asked about their gun, their eyes would light up.

    I was having a talk with one a couple years ago and decided to ask why he OC instead of CC. We had a long talk about it and it basically boiled down to supporting our 2A rights. He said he knows people that CC, that there's probably many out there that CC, but they do nothing to get the public over their fear of guns in general. If anything, hiding it let's those that fear guns drop deeper into the antis grasp thinking the few guns they do see are just extremist and out of the norm. The more people that OC, the more guns are accepted and the better chances we have of regaining lost 2A rights.

    I don't know if I agree with him 100%, but it changed my perception of people that carry just being show-offs. I personally don't OC, but I respect those that do rights to do so.

    As for those friend eyes lighting up I mentioned in the beginning, I realized mine do to. I love guns. I love understanding how they work. I love how they feel. I love shooting them. I like talking about them. If someone brings guns up I'm very happy to talk about them. The difference is I just don't talk about me carrying.

  9. #83
    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    should try it sometime phantoms where you at if your close we can OC together
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  10. #84
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    Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry?
    No, it doesn't.
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  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by jem102 View Post
    its the complaints from other patrons
    This is what I do not understand. When I hear stories about people who get hassled while OC, it usually involves someone at the store saying that there are other customers complaining.

    If a customer walks up to the manager and complains about the person open carrying, why doesn't the manager ask him/her if the person is threatening anyone or doing anything illegal. If the answer is no (which I suspect is the case) than ask the complaining customer what's the big deal then? If the answer is yes, then call the cops.

    Unless someone is pulling their gun from their holster, they're not a threat to anyone. If they aren't a threat to anyone, then everyone else should mind their own business.

    I just think the managers/store owners are better off responding with "And?" instead of "I'll talk to him."

  12. #86
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNinjaGo View Post
    This is what I do not understand. When I hear stories about people who get hassled while OC, it usually involves someone at the store saying that there are other customers complaining.

    If a customer walks up to the manager and complains about the person open carrying, why doesn't the manager ask him/her if the person is threatening anyone or doing anything illegal. If the answer is no (which I suspect is the case) than ask the complaining customer what's the big deal then? If the answer is yes, then call the cops.

    Unless someone is pulling their gun from their holster, they're not a threat to anyone. If they aren't a threat to anyone, then everyone else should mind their own business.

    I just think the managers/store owners are better off responding with "And?" instead of "I'll talk to him."
    This is all kind of obvious as to why many people and stores do not like or appreciate OC: Because OC'ing causes fear in the minds of some shoppers, and having a customer in fear while shopping for nick-nacks and groceries is not something that a manager of any profit-making store is even vagually interested in permitting or fostering.

    This, perhaps, can all be more easily visualized by OC'ers if they think of how they would feel if THEY were shopping with their family, and a complete and total stranger was walking around the store with a LIVE hand grenade. Would even an OC'er be concerned? I know I, as a CC'er, sure would be!

    Sounds absurderd and silly to compare a common handgun to a hand grenade? No, not really; they both can foster intense fear or concern in many people, and can thus both be viewed as not only unpleasant, but an actual threat to some folks in the general public.

    -Bill

  13. #87
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    Sounds absurderd and silly to compare a common handgun to a hand grenade? No, not really; they both can foster intense fear or concern in many people, and can thus both be viewed as not only unpleasant, but an actual threat to some folks in the general public.

    -Bill
    Time to state the obvious.

    Hand grenades are illegal, open carrying is not. Open carrying a HOLSTERED firearm is totally different than a grenade in the hand.

    If someone was walking around with their pistol in hand, then I'd start to worry. A holstered handgun is about as threatening as an exposed pocket clip of a knife, it's visiable, people know what it is, but I don't see people freaking out over my pocket knife.

  14. #88
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    This is all kind of obvious as to why many people and stores do not like or appreciate OC: Because OC'ing causes fear in the minds of some shoppers, and having a customer in fear while shopping for nick-nacks and groceries is not something that a manager of any profit-making store is even vagually interested in permitting or fostering.

    This, perhaps, can all be more easily visualized by OC'ers if they think of how they would feel if THEY were shopping with their family, and a complete and total stranger was walking around the store with a LIVE hand grenade. Would even an OC'er be concerned? I know I, as a CC'er, sure would be!

    Sounds absurderd and silly to compare a common handgun to a hand grenade? No, not really; they both can foster intense fear or concern in many people, and can thus both be viewed as not only unpleasant, but an actual threat to some folks in the general public.

    -Bill
    is the pin still in?

    Guns out in the open make people uncomfortable because they are taught with pre concieved notions that the mere sight of a gun indicates danger danger... when in reality it doesn't. Most events that OC'ers do is to help make aware people that it is lawful to carry openly. Usually if they are noticed they get flak and demonized... its the way of the PC beast I guess.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  15. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    Time to state the obvious.

    Hand grenades are illegal, open carrying is not. Open carrying a HOLSTERED firearm is totally different than a grenade in the hand.

    If someone was walking around with their pistol in hand, then I'd start to worry. A holstered handgun is about as threatening as an exposed pocket clip of a knife, it's visiable, people know what it is, but I don't see people freaking out over my pocket knife.
    Hi JD,

    Machine guns, hand grenades, silencers, etc are most patently NOT illegal (dependent on the state you live in) -- they are merely controlled, and they require Federal licensing.

    Still, apparently the point I was making has been missed, as I was using it as an example to make my viewpoint more clear to OC'ers.

    Apparently, I have completely failed at that, but I simply can't make it any clearer than in my above post.

    Best Regards,

    -Bill

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddyfish View Post
    I believe open carry does threaton CC. The sheep are not used to seeing guns. Signs will be their answer.

    Keep it unseen and they won't know it's there.
    I believe this is false^^. OC was around way before CC... OC is the right of the people in this country and whether or not the like it to bad... it is the law (or sense there is no law against it, it is legal)... A right un-exercised is a right lost...

    If you can't OC pretty soon you won't be able to CC either.. Attack on any of our FREEDOMS/RIGHTS is attack on all of them.

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