Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry?

This is a discussion on Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; for those that don't know... signs are legal binding in Ohio. When maddyfish said " signs will be their answer " he was refering to ...

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Thread: Does Open Carry Threaten Concealed Carry?

  1. #91
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    for those that don't know... signs are legal binding in Ohio. When maddyfish said "signs will be their answer" he was refering to people reacting negatively therefore posting gun buster signs. This means OC or CC...you wouldn't be able to go into that business that posts armed even if they didn't post before.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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  3. #92
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    This is all kind of obvious as to why many people and stores do not like or appreciate OC: Because OC'ing causes fear in the minds of some shoppers, and having a customer in fear while shopping for nick-nacks and groceries is not something that a manager of any profit-making store is even vagually interested in permitting or fostering.
    And my point was to address those fears. If someone has concerns about a fellow customer, then the manager should take those concerns seriously. If someone has a gun and acting very odd, then yes, it's time to address the issue. If the customer in question is simply reading a newspaper and sipping a cup of coffee, then the person has no reason to fear them more than anyone else. If the manager points out he's not doing anything suspicious, illegal, threatening, etc etc, maybe the customer complaining will wake up and realize they're afraid of nothing. The manager could conclude the conversation by saying he's not going to infringe upon anyone's constitutional rights.

    People should realize that the people they need to worry about conceal their guns as to make ambush easier.

  4. #93
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    Hi JD,

    Machine guns, hand grenades, silencers, etc are most patently NOT illegal (dependent on the state you live in) -- they are merely controlled, and they require Federal licensing.

    Still, apparently the point I was making has been missed, as I was using it as an example to make my viewpoint more clear to OC'ers.

    Apparently, I have completely failed at that, but I simply can't make it any clearer than in my above post.

    Best Regards,

    -Bill
    Noted. Hand grenades are illegal in Iowa and other states as well...

    However, I will still submit the following:

    Handguns and Hand Grenades are two totally different items. A handgun will not spew shrapnel in a 15 meter radius (Insert Glock Kaboom joke here)

    The analogy is a poor one despite your...efforts in making it.

    To even lump the two together is silly at best in my opinion.

  5. #94
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    for those that don't know... signs are legal binding in Ohio. When maddyfish said "signs will be their answer" he was refering to people reacting negatively therefore posting gun buster signs. This means OC or CC...you wouldn't be able to go into that business that posts armed even if they didn't post before.
    Yes, and such signs are legally binding in the two states that I have lived in and carried in: MS and NC. And in states that such signs are not now legally binding, they can be made so if firearm owners/carriers PO-off enough people with OC...

    -Bill (All of the above is IMHO, of course )

  6. #95
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Calley View Post
    Yes, and such signs are legally binding in the two states that I have lived in and carried in: MS and NC. And in states that such signs are not now legally binding, they can be made so if firearm owners/carriers PO-off enough people with OC...

    -Bill (All of the above is IMHO, of course )
    Technically the signs are not legally binding on OC in NC. They only appear in the CC scope of permit. Why? Refer back to the right v privilege idea of the NC Supreme Court. What you might run into is a trespassing charge if you refuse to leave when asked if you are OC.

    As far as stores go, the vast majority of large retail stores have a very simple take on guns. They abide by whatever state law is. Walmart, Target, Dick's Sporting Goods, Barnes and Noble, Starbucks, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Gander Mtn. and others. If someone posts a sign then they don't get my business. A local Walmart asked me to leave recently. I got the Asst. Mgr. straightened out on OC, but I don't shop there nearly as much now. Let them post, then I will take my money to stores that do not violate my right to carry. I would rather shop there anyway. I already have a list of places I will not spend a dime. Enough people do it they will get the point. If it's a local store, then they need to look into why the chain stores do this. They know better than to take a stand on the gun issue, it's easier to let the state do it.

    An employee at my local Food Lion just asked me if I was a LEO or just OC according to NC statute, which is not exactly right but. When I told him I OC and I am not a LEO I got a quite loud "SWEEETTTT!!!" out of him. Nobody ran screaming.

  7. #96
    Ex Member Array Will B. Droopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Technically the signs are not legally binding on OC in NC. They only appear in the CC scope of permit. Why? Refer back to the right v privilege idea of the NC Supreme Court. What you might run into is a trespassing charge if you refuse to leave when asked if you are OC.

    As far as stores go, the vast majority of large retail stores have a very simple take on guns. They abide by whatever state law is. Walmart, Target, Dick's Sporting Goods, Barnes and Noble, Starbucks, Best Buy, Lowe's, Home Depot, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, Gander Mtn. and others. If someone posts a sign then they don't get my business. A local Walmart asked me to leave recently. I got the Asst. Mgr. straightened out on OC, but I don't shop there nearly as much now. Let them post, then I will take my money to stores that do not violate my right to carry. I would rather shop there anyway. I already have a list of places I will not spend a dime. Enough people do it they will get the point. If it's a local store, then they need to look into why the chain stores do this. They know better than to take a stand on the gun issue, it's easier to let the state do it.

    An employee at my local Food Lion just asked me if I was a LEO or just OC according to NC statute, which is not exactly right but. When I told him I OC and I am not a LEO I got a quite loud "SWEEETTTT!!!" out of him. Nobody ran screaming.
    Unfortunately Chief, I have lived in an area, Releigh NC, that posted "No Firearms" signs (not as a response to OC necessarily, but as a response to CCW'ing itself).

    Back then in 1996 (don't know about Raleigh now), it wasn't a question of simply taking your business elsewhere just because a few stores were posted "No Guns"; MOST stores that I needed to frequent were posted. So, while I was legally permitted to carry, practicality meant that I could not do so.

    -Bill

  8. #97
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    I know for a fact that in the service business we had for almost thirty years here in CA. I would not have lasted very long. Not only would I lose clientele but employees, had OCing been allowed back then. You do what you must to survive and your employees and clients are your bread and butter! As I mentioned earlier, I approve of OC, but I think at least for CA, at this time, it hurts to a degree. Just my opinion.

    Respectfully
    Kyle
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  9. #98
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    As a CA native, I've seen the political attitudes move from right to left. Now with the economy in shambles, it may start drifting back to center. I think Kyle said it right in an early post, that the OC "comfort level" might be more a matter of timing than anything else. CA is really waiting for the MacDonald SCOTUS case, more than most states. CA does not have a RKBA in its state constitution. Seems that the early state founders didn't want the Mexicans to have guns... Not too different from Slaughterhouse where the Southerners didn't want freemen and former slaves to have guns. (Might hinder the KKK in that era?)

    Once the Chicago/MacDonald SCOTUS case is decided, CA will likely get its RKBA. With that comes favorable decisions in currently paused lawsuits against CA's shall (not) issue CCW, the "safe" gun roster (from which LE is exempt so they can use "unsafe" guns), etc.

    One last item: A previous post from a former CA/LEO suggested that if there were a tax placed on being able to OC, it would probably get legalized. Absolutely correct. One thing that I've learned about CA's legislators is that you can ALWAYS count on them to whore out ANYTHING to make a buck so they can squander it on fatter pensions, bad union contracts, birth control for gay men and erectile dysfunction subsidies for lesbians. But really, just because they can is absolutely no justification for them actually doing anything. Taxing OC when we do not have a fair CCW is akin to taxing free speech or any other Constitutional right.

  10. #99
    Member Array Kyle18's Avatar
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    Ban OCing

    Judge for yourself if you think OCing can be be harmful to CCW or gun possession in general, both sides have pros/con.

    Respectfully,
    Kyle

    CA Open Carry Ban: Anti-Self Defense DEMOCRAT introduces Ban Bill - Calguns.net
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  11. #100
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Does OC threaten CC?

    In my opinion...no. If it is legal, is legal...period. And in some places it is the only way for a law abiding citizen to be armed. In those places, of course, the criminal continue to conceal their guns. Go figure...
    Gonzo
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  12. #101
    Ex Member Array NavyLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle18 View Post
    Judge for yourself if you think OCing can be be harmful to CCW or gun possession in general, both sides have pros/con.

    Respectfully,
    Kyle

    CA Open Carry Ban: Anti-Self Defense DEMOCRAT introduces Ban Bill - Calguns.net
    [sarcasm]Yep. You are right. It's all the open carriers' fault. If it wasn't for those open carriers having the audacity to stand up for their rights...[/sarcasm]

    Heck, Kyle, why don't change your thread title to Ban All Guns! and then we won't have to worry about how a law abiding may be able to carry at all, because there won't be any more need...

    Instead of whining about the people who stand up for their rights in this country, why don't put the blame squarely on those that are trying to take away our rights instead.

  13. #102
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    [sarcasm]Yep. You are right. It's all the open carriers' fault. If it wasn't for those open carriers having the audacity to stand up for their rights...[/sarcasm]

    Heck, Kyle, why don't change your thread title to Ban All Guns! and then we won't have to worry about how a law abiding may be able to carry at all, because there won't be any more need...

    Instead of whining about the people who stand up for their rights in this country, why don't put the blame squarely on those that are trying to take away our rights instead.
    Oh for cryin out loud be nice

    Just cause the bill is introduced doesn't mean it passes. Sometimes standing up for something means getting knocked down a few times along the way.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #103
    Member Array Kyle18's Avatar
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    Navy LT, I posted the link for information purposes only, not to debate the issues. In my county, the only way to carry is Open Carry unless your are VERY special. Posting the link to demonstrate what some of our legislators attempt to do does not constitue whining as far as I'm concerned. Just showing what lengths and what "excuses" these politicians will use to foster their agenda. (That was not my thread only my post of an existing thread on Calguns.net)

    Respectfully,

    Kyle
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  15. #104
    Member Array monk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I vote no.

    Personally I feel that it is reprhensible that we consider forcing someone to pay for training, pay a tax to the State, and obtain the State's permission to do something as exercising a right.

    If we applied the same standards to voting, IE: you had to pay for a literacy exam, pass that exam, and pay the State for a license to vote, would that be considered as people possessing the right to vote?

    Aside from any other arguments about open carry, it is an expression for others to see that it is normal for people in America to be able to exercise our true right to self protection.
    I wouldn't mind seeing a literacy exam for voting though...
    Chinese Proverb:
    "When someone shares something of value with you and you benefit from it, you have a moral obligation to share it with others."
    VCDL member (DE.357;Ruger 4" GP-100 .357;Ruger 2.2" SP-101 cc hammer .357;BT .380cc.

  16. #105
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Phantoms;1498474]
    I was having a talk with one a couple years ago and decided to ask why he OC instead of CC. We had a long talk about it and it basically boiled down to supporting our 2A rights. He said he knows people that CC, that there's probably many out there that CC, but they do nothing to get the public over their fear of guns in general. If anything, hiding it let's those that fear guns drop deeper into the antis grasp thinking the few guns they do see are just extremist and out of the norm. The more people that OC, the more guns are accepted and the better chances we have of regaining lost 2A rights.
    QUOTE]

    I agree with the above - Its all about education. If people never see guns, except for the criminal element, their perception will never change. Good, normal, law abiding folk that OC and can share their reasons for carrying with other people will go a long way in changing the attitude of the masses. Its 1 person at a time so the more OCing, the more education.
    Note: I have not personally had the guts to OC, so I really appreciate/respect those who do. I do share my beliefs regarding RKBA whenever possible. Id probably get more opportunities to share my thoughts if I OCd.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

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